| Is there a late run Sockeye run in the Fraser
and Vedder?
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There is a late September/Early October run of Sockeye which runs up into the Cultus lake and tribs, but I heard this year it apparnelty ran up really early for some odd reason, not known to scientists just yet. I found a half dead Sockeye on the Vedder last year on October 27th. It was still breathing, in nice shape (scarlett coloured female, but with some nice shine to her). She was breathing, but her body didn't appear to be responding all that well. The Weaver Creek Sockeye which run up the Harrison also spawn from early October to Mid October, meaning most of the migration occurs usually during the month of September or slightly before. In dominant years, the Adams run is the latest run you're supposed to find amongst Sockeye runs. Its kind of a neat thing to see how genetically salmon adapt. Since the Adams river on average has higher water temperatures than other streams, the fish will incubate faster. So many speculate that the Adams Sockeye return later so that their offspring hatch at the same time as other Sockeye do, and also at the peak time of Plankton blooms in the Shuswap lake. That really says a lot about fish and how they adapt and return at optimal times so their young to survive when hatched. It also says a lot about the specialization of Sockeye in their rearing and spawning and some scientists place them above coho and chinook in the chain of salmonid evoloution because of this high specialization. Scott
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there are no sockeye around now especially in the vedder
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In years past I caught sockeye in late October into November in the Vedder. These are fish bound up Sweltzer Creek to Cultus Lake. There is also a run of sockeye intp Maria Slough that comes in quite late (October)
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Hey Ralph, I think those Sockeye that go up into the Maria slough are a new type of ghost fish that one can only see when they are sleeping. The only Sockeye your gonna catch out of the Maria Slough are the ones that swim into the slough mouth to clean their gills during a fall rain. Another possible explanation is in 1998 when we had that severe EL NINO, for some reason Sockeye were seen swimming up every Fraser Backwater and slough in the Fraser Valley, a phenomenon that has yet to be explained. None of those backwaters historically hold Sockeye spawning grounds.(including the Maria Slough) PS. Ralph, Those redish looking salmon you see in the Maria slough when you drive by in late Oct, early Nov. They are actually Coho. Not Sockeye.
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Mr Guretzki. No doubt you are a man of considerable angling experience. Unfortunately you lack the wisdom to realize your broad experience does not negate the experience of others. I have caught sockeye in Maria Slough. I have seen them spawning on redds of the streams that run into the slough. I have never seen a coho with a bottle green head as the sockeye I've handled on Maria Slough. it is possible these are strays from Weaver Creek but they are there and they have been there consistently over the past 15 years or so. Cheers!
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Yeah, never negate first hand expierience. There are some races of Sockeye that are weird. Like for instance the WEaver creek Sockeye, most would expect would rear in Morris lake, but the bulk of the Sockeye actually move into the Harrison lake and rear there as juveniles. Who knows what kind of rearing these sockeye that Ralph is talking about do, maybe theres a near by lake that they move into, but it just goes to show the high specialization of these fish and where they rear.
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Two years ago I caught and released two reddish sockeye in the last week of October in what was the "Spring Meat Hole" at the Vedder Crossing restaurant. I was quite surprised along with the people around me. Both were small about 2-lbs.
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Pat, Sweltzer creek is just above that. They must have been holding there before moving up sweltzer creek and into cultus lake and into its tribs. Like its been said, the Cultus run is traditionally a later run of Sockeye.
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Well, Ralph, Maybe were talking about 2 different Maria Sloughs, I doubt it though. I'm referring to the one just east of the Rosedale Bridge on highway 7, and I have been fishing that slough for almost 20 years and have never seen a Sockeye in it except for at the mouth by the Fraser. I did hear that some moved in during the wierd year of 1998 though. I've got some extra posters on what salmon look like in all stages if you'd like them Ralph.
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I'm talkin' salmon Rob not Sperm Whales. Why act so incredulous? From the Haig Hwy Bridge to the second culvert Maria is more a lake than a slough. I've seen sockeye there over the last 10 - 15 years.
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Last year sockeyes were found in the Alouette, where the natural run (at least I think there was one before the dam) disappeared 70 years ago. There's certainly no lake for them to go in, yet some ended up there. When you're talking millioms of fish swimmin by, a few are probably gonna end up in some weird places.
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Sometimes if fish won't make it they'll run up any river available. I would imagine these could be upper pitt river fish. Dave, remember how we talked about Sockeye being taken in the STave? It happens. If they're running out of time, you'll find them anywhere. I've heard of some late sockeye running up some VI streams that don't have lakes or proper sockeye habitat (lakes/nurseries) becuase they are too late to make the Fraser. Maybe Maria Slough offers some kind of nursery for rearing Sockeye. It doens't always have to be a lake, just most Sockeye stocks use a lake. Or maybe Maria Slough should be changed to "Early Honeymooner Sockeye suite slough." What do you think, kinda catchy?
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Found a dead but healthy looking sockeye at the Ruskin Dam on the Stave earlier this year.Lost or a good climber?
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Lost. Like Scott was saying, you're always gonna get some fish that take a wrong turn, especially when the numbers are involved that there are with the sockeye. In the case of the slough though, I do think maybe it is used to rear a few sockeye, it is possible I guess.
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Ok Ralph, if your talking below the highway, then like I said, the highway is only a quarter of a mile away from the Fraser, yes Sockeye will come that far up and take rest from the dirty Fraser, but they do not spawn in the Maria Slough.
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Ive seen them spawning above the second culvert. By that I've seen females in full spawning dress digging in gravel in early November. Facts is they are there just before the tarpon come in the end of the month!
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Ok, ok, Ralph has seen salmon in the slough. Big deal, its easier to prove that they're not there, just because you havent caught them in no way means they're not there. Robert knows what hes talking about ralph, he seems to be a pretty good fisherman by the sounds of things. |
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There are chinooks in Mariah.
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Ralph/Rob, its the begginning of November right now, go have a look, together, holding hands.....
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too busy taking permit out of Johnson Slough right now. Maybe just before the bream come into Nathan Creek I'll have some time. BTW anyone see those Minke Whales up at Hope this August?
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You are
right about Vedder Sockeye as you've said in the past (and I've
supported you). My readings have proven this: The Cultus
Lake Sockeye are unique in that they are amongst the latest of the Sockeye
to spawn in the Fraser Watershed, and also they will utilize lake shores
for spawning a lot more so than other river/lake nursery systems. The
mean incubation temperature is also around 8 celsius which means the young
will incubate quite fast! YOu said something before about the Cultus Lake
sockeye arriving early this year for some odd reason? Anyways, like I
said before, I found a nice looking Sockeye on the Vedder on Oct 27th
last year. |
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I too have also seen sockeye and know a guy who catches them in the Stave River.
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As Greg was saying,there are Sockeye in the Stave River, in good numbers.(not in the same numbers as the Fraser or Vedder, obviously) Every year in July thru early September, I personally see them, and catch them,(catch and release) on an almost daily basis. I happen to live on the banks of the river and fish it almost daily(time permitting or 'wife permitting'!) and they are here. I talked to Stu at the Inch Creek Hatchery and he said there is a small run which seems to have established itself on the Stave.I'm not a rocket scientist or fish biologist (like some of us, who shall remain anonymous) but I have hands on experience. This year there were hundreds of them up near the Dam and some were very aggressive, I've caught them on spinners, roe, wool, fly and Jensen Eggs.That's no fluke. They are here for reasons I don't know or really care. It's just a good thing that they are here.
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Hey Dave, there are actually populations of Sockeye in the lower fraser, one of them is the Harrison Rapids population? or something like that? which as fry they aren't strong enough to make it to the Harrison Lake and use it as a Nursery, so they have adapted to move down to the Fraser estuary and rear there until smolt size. I would imagine some of these fish have probably strayed. I'm just curious if you can tell me which month these sockeye spawn in? Because I would imagine with the warmer flows of the Stave, they would probably be either be strays (if they were naturally occuring populations, they would probalby spawn at the best time condusive to their offspring incubationg to they arrive at the best time which would probalby be around now or slightly earlier), or they could actually be the orignal stock of Sockeye which probalby would have utilized the Stave before they dammed the thing (TWICE!!). I know there are kokanee in Stave Lake, so these could have been the remmants of the sockeye run which used the System. Its so sad to see races of fish go extinct, especially Sockeye. Sockeye seem to be amongst the most popular fish amongst the public, not just for eats, but as a symbol of all salmon (we all see pictures of bright scarlett red spawning beds full of Sockeye doing the deed). The one thing that kinda got me was the story they did in BC outdoors about how when they dammed the Alouette they lost not only a race of Sockeye which used Alouette Lake, but they also lost a race of Chinook which had adapted to spawn above the lake. Now the river is apparenlty polutted with those Harrison White bastards. Oh well... This brings me to antoher subject. The Campbell River on the Island. Wouldn't it have made sense to have dammed the river above the falls, so that the fish can still utilize the canyon habitat (which is essential in most cases for Steelhead rearing and as well as over wintering habitat?) |
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Scott: Historically Stave Lake was not accessible to anadromous fish.
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Yeah, to add to what Ralph said, there was a falls (still is actually) just below the dam at Stave Falls (the one above Hayward Lake, not below). The only water that was destroyed was a canyon stretch below where Hayward Lake is now.
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