OK. here's a interesting discussion which I think a lot of you can participate
in. In the past few weeks, as you may have noticed, I've been posting
reports on barfishing in the Lower Fraser and on catches of dolly vardens.
One or two of the fishes I've caught were monster sizes, 60cm+,
and back a few years ago I saw one caught that was around 80cm long. So
after discussing with my fish professor at UBC, we believe those are not
actually dolly vardens, but are bull trout! His DNA research on local char
species have shown that most "dollies" that are that size are actually
bull trout. Dollies rarely grow over 30cm long. It is hard to distinguish
dollies and bull trout morphologically because they look so similar. After
doing some more research, I've found that the only slight differences
between dollies and bulls are that bulls have longer noses and they can
grow to a bigger size. It just surprises me that I was catching bull trout
in the Lower Fraser River since to my knowledge I did not know these fish
are migratory. I've always thought bull trout reside in deep cold lakes.
OK, away from the scientific stuff for awhile, so does anyone know if these
dollies or bulls stay in the Fraser during the winter months or do they
move further upstream into the Pitt River system for spawning? In the past
week I haven't really caught any of them at all, so just curious if
this is it for them.
So, any feedbacks, ideas, I would love to hear them.
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Rodney you obviously didnt do much research on the topic. Find the bull
trout vs Dolly Varden formula which is used to distinguish between the two.
The most obvious feature is the branchiostigal(sic)rays. They differ
between Dolly and bull trout. Look some more and you will find the answer.
The key number here is 23. The area you are in is a area of overlap. Char
are fall spawners.
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Well I'm not saying I did full research on these species or that I know
everything. Thanks for the info anyway. Well I'll look into the branchiostigal
rays tomorrow. So are bull trout also anadromous? It's just not too
many people have mentioned about bull trout or dollies on this site and
it's quite interesting to find out all this info. Keep those useful
tips coming! :-)
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hey rod.....I fish the pitt river regularly and we constantly catch dollies
or bull trout all year long.The best time is may throughto july.I have seen
them spawning in the summer months.NO they are not just a fall spawner!!!!!!!
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Thanx Brad, that's pretty cool! So you mean you were catching them below
Pitt Lake or the system above it? Do you think these guys will hang around
the tidal portion like as low as the Fraser Mouth during the winter time?
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We catch them in the lower portion of the river just above the cpr bridge.Yes
i think they do hang around becaus4e i have caught them between the pit
river bridges in february using roe and spinners.I have caught them in march
also and some of the fish caught were spilling out single eggs.I think the
fish spilling eggs were spawning on the gravel bar,all fish were quickly
released with care
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I checked out that book Bar Fishing the Lower Fraser, Im curious whats there
now, it mentioned steelhead, No.5 road it said had them, but whats the best
bet? Never fished Fraser before.
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It's been a long time since I did much serious bar fishing. Steelhead
are taken sporadically off the bars of the lower river. I remember talking
to a fellow had fished a couple of days a week at Duncan Bar through one
winter and took 9 fish (not bad actually). Brownsville Bar has a
reputation as a holding spot for steelhead.
Some of the bars around Chilliwack and Hope have a rep for producing steelhead
on a more regular basis
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Thanx again Brad, that cleared up quite a few questions that I've had.
That's interesting, so it's possible to catch them during the winter
months too. What's the biggest bull trout you've caught around that
region?
Regarding bar fishing, No. 5 Road on the South Arm is ok, can get kind of
annoying with the current. Don't cast too far out, too many snags. My
friend caught a chum there a week ago, so maybe there are still a few around.
Don't know too much about steelheads though. I doubt there are many
since the poor returns in recent years. And those books on Bar fishing were
from quite a long time ago usually, when fishing was still quite good. :-)
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Rodney,
Good post, this is just experienced-based, no research. I used to catch
heaps of dollies off of warf in the saltchuck a little ways out of Port
Edward (I know...Port Where???) We used to call them Sea-run Dollies,
we also used to get them in commercial nets occasionally. I have also seen
what I think is the same fish caught at Garry Point in Richmond.
The size you are describing (Around 3 or so lbs?) is very similar.
These fish are much more silver than bull trout I have caught in the interior
and of fatter (football) shape in the body, I am certain that these
fish are sea-run and are the fish that you are catching.
I would be interested if you get to the bottom of their identification and
post it. Thanks
Bert
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Thanx Bert, yeah I have caught some at Garry Point Park also in the past.
Well, most of them I've caught are in the 20cm to 30cm range, it's
just occasionally I'll get the odd 40cm to 70cm fish. Talked to my fish
professor more today about it, and he said that both dollies and bulls are
not really considered as anadromous, but they have been caught in Howe Sound,
Spanish Bank, etc. Basically they don't move out far from the river,
probably just hang out the river mouth to munch on some baitfish when food
is not abundant upstream. As for fish identification, he said that in the
past they have done numerous DNA analysis tests on these fish in the Pitt/Fraser
system and Squamish System, and what they find is Dollies rarely get over
30cm long, whereas the bigger fish are 60cm+. Castotomus also mentioned
that the difference lies in the number of branchiostigal rays, that's
also something to look into. If I catch more in the future, I will be taking
fin samples from the fish for some DNA tests to determine the species, so
I'll keep people posted. This is really interesting. :-)
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I caught a couple 23 years ago off Airport property in the Fraser River.
Only those two though. Now I'm giving away my age. SHEESHH!
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Hehehe, so Daisy you caught those fish when you were two years old??? Wow...
;-) So do people think they were more abundant back then, or has the
population been relatively the same? This year I was really surprised how
many I was catching when I barfished in the Lower Fraser. I think there
was one day when I caught and released 16 fish in two hours or so...
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Rodney, Yes as a matter of fact I was about 2 when I got them. :) Were
these 16 fish you caught caught at Gary Point?? I've fished there tons
and never caught one there, however I didn't fish there this year. I've
never seen one there. Ever.
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Rod, the mouth of the Coquitlam river in the spring is killer for dollies
and cutts. I never get them that big usually around the 25 cms mark. I saw
one that topped out at around 4lbs by a guy fishing with a spoon. These
fish are suckers for roe and a spin and glow and will hamper fishinf for
reds. Try the mouth their in the end of airprill and drift either a dew
worm and a single egg{egg sucking leech}, roe or toss big spoons and you
will get into them. Pitt lake has some big dollies that are caught every
year, especially near the mouth of the upper pitt. You ever tried underneath
the pitt river bridge? I tried their last fall and did not get anything
except a jack coho. I have heard that it ca be very good for big dollies
there.
Ian
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Thanx for the tips Ian!! Those are really helpful and I will surely remember
those.
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Has anyone here had luck in the lower pitt river fishing for dollies? I
would not mind finding out more about this fishery.
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Ian try down at the end of dominnion ave in poco.Fish the sand bar you will
see it.Can be very good all year round for all species.BIG BIG DOLLIES.The
biggest dollie i ever caught was close to 10 pounds
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I was at Pitt River earlier this year, didnt get to fish. Looked pretty
deep and dark. Did see a few sandbars aroudn though.
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To Daisy: Those 16 fish I caught were in the North Arm of Fraser, the Richmond
side, near the intersection of River Road and West Minster Hwy. On the other
side of the River it's Burnaby/New West. This was back in around early
November, and I fished there for several days in a row and caught so many
of them, that's why I started doing research on these guys. They were
caught on roe, and also on croc spoons. When fished with roe, the bites
were coming almost right away during high tide. As for Garry Point, I've
only caught dollies around that park during May and June. I use a orange
croc spoon. I find that if you target the backwater in that park, that's
where they are hiding, sometimes they will jump out from the rocks a few
meters from shore to grab your lure, so always be alert until your lure
is out of the water. I usually fish in Garry Point for coarse fish during
the summer time, like the peamouth chub and Northern Squawfish. These guys
are actually quite fun to catch. I catch chub by dough under a float, the
squawfish are 60cm+ by croc spoons or bait. That park is actually quite
productive if you are looking for a place to fish close by.
To Ian: Not only you are a good angler but also a mountain biker? Sweet!
Hehe... Anyway, I didn't do it this year, and I actually got a free
entry for 2001 because I've done lots of promotion stuff for the organizer.
The race course is not too hard, but it's a lot of fun I tell ya! It's
long, so be prepared. I find the distance is not really a challenge for
me anymore because I've ridden that course over ten times now. The more
you ride the shorter it feels. Email me more if you find out more about
the mountain bike races.
This is exciting guys, good to find out all this awesome fishing for dollies
that you can do year round, thanx again for all your feedbacks. I think
I might try the Poco area next week. :-)
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Rodney, come do the kokanee 24hours of adrenaline this year. Itis a good
race my buddy did it last year. ••••
this is non fishing. I will email you.
Ian
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