Steelhead -Trout or Salmon?

i know this is not a report but i got to know what other anglers think. is a steelhead a trout or a salmon? i have checked this out, and i think they belong to the salmon family. what do you think? ok heres a report,, steelhead starting to show up in the stamp. i will try the cowichan sunday..


Peter, i'm thinking steelhead are in the trout family...after all, trout live and return to spawn a few more times than once, salmon DON'T! I don't know what the biologists are thining, but to me, a steelhead that spawns and goes back to the ocean to return and spwan again is a trout. Everyone knows salmon DIE after spawning...that's why they are salmon, not a trout or sttelhead. I hope that answers your question! My thoughts only btw :)


Cody, your argument would be fine except that Atlantic salmon also spawn more than once. Steelhead are trout because they are genetically closer to the fresh water Rainbow trout than to any other species. Infact, Steelhead and fresh water Rainbow Trout belong to the same species salmo gairdneri (Gairdneri was a naturalist in the employ of the Hudson Bay Company). These fish bear similar physical characteristic - no teeth on the back of tongue, often whitish to yellowish border to anal and pelvic fins, often with a broad red band on the sides, and the maxillary usually reaching little or no distance past the rear posterior margin of the eye. While studies have shown that fresh water coastal rainbows and and steelhead differ in average scale count as well as migratory patterns (Neave, 1944), there is no clear dividing line between these two fish. Infact interior rainbows often exhibit similar migratory habits as steelhead only on a smaller scale. These fish will spend a variable time in streams before they migrate (this time to a lake rather than the ocean). Young hatched in inlet streams may enter the late in their first year, while those hatched in outlet streams often remain there for one winter. Spawning may occur in year 3 or 4. Hope this helps.


Actually Sandman, the book from which you obtained your information is a little out of date. Rainbow trout (and coastal cutthroat trout, for that matter) are salmon. This was determined in 1989 by genetic testing which showed that these two "trout" species are phylogenetically closely related to salmon. Characteristics such as death after spawning and spawning season are not taxonomically as important as similarities in DNA. Rainbow trout and steelhead are the SAME fish, classified as Oncorhynchus mykiss (changed from Salmo mykiss). Also, coastal cutthroat salmon are technically classified as a member of the salmon genus Oncorhynchus clarki clarki. I don't think that the DFO recognizes this distinction in its regulations since the change has been too recent and not enough people know about it.

Excellent Rudiger. Does this include all fresh water rainbow "trout" (AKA Kamloops rainbows)? Also which species are left in the salmo class? That is which are the true "trout" species? BTW which study or book did you find this information in? I obviously need to update my library.

All rainbow trout fall under Oncorhynchus mykiss (Kamloops, Gerrard, steelhead, etc). Whether these types of rainbows are considered subspecies is open to debate. This leaves the Atlantic Salmon (Salmo salar) and the Brown trout (Salmo trutta) in the genus Salmo. Any good recent (post-1989)book should have this information.

If you look under writers[Barry M Thornton]
Steelhead trout' all the info is there.
Oncorhynchus mykiss

Thanks for your help fellas. But correct me if I am wrong, doesn't J.C. Abbott refer to steelhead as "salmo gairdneri" in his 1991 study for the Ministry of Lands, Environment, and Parks? I guess he is as outdated as I am. I have to double check that. Also, isn't Thornton's book from 1979? He uses "oncorhynchus mykiss"? I guess it goes to show you that classifications are rarely useful. It was always odd to have classified rainbow "trout" in the same family as Atlantic salmon (the original salmo). It does, however, make perfect sense that they would be genetically closer to Oncorhyncus than Salmo. But what does it mean to classify these species of fish as salmon? I still think that steelhead behave more like a "trout" than a "salmon", their ocean migration excepting. Does knowing that these fish are salmon make them any easier to catch? Does knowing my prized kamloops rainbow is a salmon make me want to fish for it any less? Not likely. Oncorhyncus mykiss it is!



Thanks for the help fellas, but correct me if I am wrong. Didn't JC Abbott refer to steelhead as Salmo Gairdneri in his 1991 study for the Ministry of Lands, Environment, and Parks? I guess he is as outdated as I am. I will have to double check that. Also, isn't Thornton's book from 1979? He uses Oncorhynchus mykiss? I guess it just goes to show how fruitless classification can be. I still think steelhead behave more like a "trout" than a "salmon," their ocean migration excepting. And I always thought it odd to classify rainbow trout in the same genus as Atlantic Salmon (the original salmo). I do, however, think it makes perfect sense that the raindow trout might be closely related genetically to oncorhynchus, given that they inhabit many of the same streams. But what does it mean to classify the steelhead as a salmon? Does knowing this make them any easier to catch? Does knowing that my prized kamloops rainbows are salmon make me want to catch one any less? I think not. Oncorhynchus mykiss it is!

Yeah Sandman I think you have it right.Big trout,
hard to catch,wish there were more.

the classification of steelhead isn't to the genus onchornychus was done as it was the classification first given the steelhead in the watershed it was first identified in - which is in eastern Siberia (Pacific Russia). The Salmo classification was given much later by American biologists who found it in Western North America who were unaware of the Russian classification and related the fish to european trout (brown Trout) placing it is the genus salmo. The international college of ichtheologists decided (by democratic vote) to adopt the earliest classification on record and lumped all pacific salmon/trout into the same group.

I think that theres a little somethin' that we're leavin off the table here.What percentages of adult steelhead are repeat spawners?I think you'll be mighty surprised to find that it is less than 15%.They are capable of such feats,but the rematch almost never happens.Reasons;Biological clocks,commercial interception,natural predation and ceremonial purposes.It would be nice to think that repeat spawning occurred with enough frequency to enhance different runs,however it does constrict the genetic diversity of the original brood,making repeat spawning a non factor in managing the run.As far as what they are;They are plain and simple,sea-run rainbows.After thousands of years of evolution,they do exhibit characteristics that have linked them more closely to the salmon.To be more correct,they have speciated,due solely to their environment,differentiating them from rainbows and salmon.

Chumthumper good to see you in this highbrow salmogaidnerigenusanchornychusmykiss section.What the **** is a ichtheologist anyway?Are steelhead really searun rainbows or rainbows landlocked steelhead.Are they the same as lake run rainbows in the Great Lakes or the searun trout on the east coast?Why do we park on driveways and drive on parkways?All too confusing to me but I sure like to catch them whatever you call them.

When we're busting road these days,they always have one of those environmental fellows,making sure we don't mess up the creek,with all the equipment and stuff.Nice fellow,knows his steelheading in the QCI and has informed me a bit over the seasons.Truth is,I found it fascinating and learned a bit on my own.Doesn't matter what they are though,just as long as they are,good fishing.

Rainbows are not land-locked steelhead. Land locked steelhead can however be found in the interior of BC. Kamloops trout - are land locked steelhead, but for the most part rainbows are not steelhead. A steelhead is not a salmon, salmon return to the river to spawn and die, a steelhead does not. A steelhead is a sea-run fish that returns to freshwater each year, and is over 50cm in length. This is not to say that any rainbow over 50cm is a steelhead. But steelhead is not in the salmanoid species, it even says in the regs.

relying on the 'regs' are you?how quaint!do a web search,key words-oncorhychus+ichthyology,it will all come clear to you with some study.
perhaps your 'tag' should be lightweight not nineweight;-)

Apparently by your reasoning Mike, then steelhead must be 50cm when they hatch out of eggs. Jack steelhead which are less than 50cm must also be rainbows despite the fact that they migrated to the ocean. I think that you are mixing up the regulations with real science. The regulations must make simple definitions out of complex matters so that everybody will understand. Next time, do your homework before you put your hand up in class.

Chumthumper's comments on steelhead return migration are pretty accurate. I believe that it was Big Qualicum that did a study on repeat spawning steelhead and found that only about 10% were 2nd spawners and less than 1% were 3rd return spawners. Their study also showed that 80% of the repeat spawners were female and that the record for repeats was an 8 lb. female who was on her 6th or 7th return (based on scale sampling, that would make her 9 or 10 years old).

Sorry I don't have details of the study, it was done a few years ago.

FYI, the listed difference that makes the steelhead classification trout instead of a salmon is the number of anal fin rays. A fish that has 12 or more rays on it's anal fin is considered a salmon. A fish having 12 or less anal fin rays is considered a trout. They may both come from the same family, but a steelhead is still considered a trout not a salmon.
It takes a big man to admit that he is wrong. Obviously you are one to flog a dead horse.

My guess is that to an icthiologist it matters not if a steelhead is a salmon or a trout. Strictly speaking there is only one salmon, the true salmon of the Atlantic. Our Pacific salmon got that common name because they were similar in numbers and seasons of abundance to Salmo Salar. That Steelhead along with all the other trouts of the Pacific basin are now lumped into the genus Onchornychus doesn't make the very real differences between steelhead and the 5 common "Pacific Salmon" any less important. Not the least of which is abundance. Steelhead are a niche species. They succeed through adaptability whereas fish like Sockeye, Pinks and Chum succeed largely through specialization and abundance.

Steelies are rainbows! I mean you have sea run cutts, sea run browns and sea run bows which just happen to be called steelhead.

By the way, any thoughts as to whether the common whitefish is a tuna or a sucker?

Cheers.

The comments of many here prove they should learn more about simple fish biology and classification before they open their mouths or tap their keyboards. BTW whitefish are salmonids more closely related to trout than suckers.

To be more correct, whitefish are from Salmoniformes and belong to the Salmnoninae family.

BTW Barry, the Atlantic Salmon also has 8 to 12 rays in its anal fin. Does that make Atlantic Salmon a trout? Bill suggests this is a simple and efficient way to identify species in the field, as a way to tell Atlantic Salmon, Steelhead, Cutthroat, and Brown trout from the five species of Pacific Salmon. It is also interesting to note that the most recent source that Bill cites is already 12 years old. You would think the DFO would have access to more recent information. The steelhead is a trout because it is called a steelhead trout and not a steelhead salmon. It is completely arbitrary. While genetically closest to Pacific Salmon, it does not die immediately after spawning as they do, and has some external physical characterictics that distinguishes it from its cousins. Beyond that, who cares?

Ralph, I don't know why you need to believe that steelhead are salmon and I don't why I need you to believe otherwise but in any case here is hopefully some indisputable evidence as to the classification of steelhead.

Taken from Fishes: An introduction to icthyology. 3rd ed. by Peter Moyle and Joseph Cech jr. pg 184.

The changes in scientific names in a species frequently reflect changes in our udnerstanding of the nature and relationships of the species. A classic example of this is the rainbow trout, Oncorhynchus mykiss (Walbaum 1792), which for over 150 years was listed as Salmo gairdneri Richardson, 1836 (Smith and Stearley 1989). John Richardson described the trout from specimens he had collected from the Columbia River in 1836. However, Johann Walbaum had described a similar species, Salmo mykiss, from the Kamchatka Peninsula of Asia in 1792. The similarity of the two "species" was recognized for a long time but unambiguous evidence that they belonged to the same species was not collected until the 1970s and 1980s by Russian and Japanese workers. Resistance of American workers to recognizing Russian science, however, delayed adoption of the name Salmo mykiss for North American populations. By the strict rules of scientific nomenclature, the earliest name had precedence. However, by the late 1980s new work on the family Salmonidae, to which rainbow trout belong, indicated that rainbow trout were much more closely related to Pacific salmon of the genus Oncorhynchus than they were to Atlantic salmon and trout of the genus Salmo. Thus rainbow trout were placed in Oncorhynchus and because the Russian species name was finally accepted at the same time, rainbow trout became Oncorhynchus mykiss (Smith and Stearly 1989).

And for those of you who do not know the history, the specimen Richardson collected in the Columbia was indeed a steelhead. Game, set and match. Thank you weary weary mutch.

Oh and please disregard the use of underlining or italics for the genus/species names. Can't find them readily on my computer.

Ta.

Here's an answer to Gary's Question. It's better suited to this conversation. The only major differance between a rainbow trout and a steelhead is that the steelhead is anadromous. Spending part of it's life in saltwater and returning to freshwater to spawn. It is possible for a steelhead to have offsring that are classed as resident trout, if that fish does not go to the ocean. I don't know if it works the other way or not. "At the juvenile stage, the steelhead trout is nearly impossible to distinguish from the resident rainbow. In some cases it can be distinguished by an in-depth study of otolith characteristics. Otolith is a free floating bone in the ear." (TROUT, Stackpole Books 1991.)

Tyler, a steelhead may be salmon - doesn't really matter to me at all - but I do know that you are a troll! 8^)

Again, whitefish, salmon, trout and charr belong to Salmoniformes. Salmon and trout and charr are Family Salmonidae and Whitefish are Family Salmoninae. Look it up it. . .

Barry,

The difference between a steelhead and a resident trout is Steelhead are greater than 50 cm and residents are less than 50 cm. That means you can kill everything under 50 cm and over 30 cm. Good eats my friend.

Carver, there is a simple way to tell the Carcharias megalodon from the average smallmouth. When you get it alongside the boat, grasp it firmly by the lower lip, raise it out of the water, and peer down into its throat. If you're still alive a moment later, it's probably a smallmouth.

I say "probably" because there have been reports of inter-breeding between bass and "dons". But the offspring (megalobassadons) are unlikely to take off more than an arm.

You gotta be careful though. A lot of BC anglers - accustomed to trout and salmon - will mistake a perch-megalodon cross as a bass variety. Big mistake. The megaloperchadon is deadly. Tasty, with a lot of bones, but deadly.

Be careful out there.

Those must be the FRY FRIENDLY ones .I herd they don't much taste.

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