I can't remember who I was having the discussion with about steelhead
being the poorest swimmers of the Pacific Salmonid family, but here's
some data fyi. Have a look at which fish has the fastest burst speed. Steelhead
are by far the dominant sprinters of the group and have the fastest sustained
speed. I thought Fishcarver and Bobber would be happy to see the blistering
pace of whitefish. I left lamprey off the list but should have included
it so that the poor whitefish wasn't last.( Northcote, T.,pers.
Com,1993)
fish species/ crusing speed / sustained speed / burst speed @meters/sec
brown trout = 0-0.7 = .7- 1.9 = 1.9- 3.9
carp = 0-0.4 = .4- 1.2 = 1.2- 2.6
chinook = 0-2.7 = 2.7- 3.3 = 3.3- 6.8
coho = 0-2.7 = 2.7- 3.2 = 3.2- 6.6
grayling = 0-0.8 = .8- 2.1 = 2.1- 4.3
shad = 0-0.7 = .7- 2.2 = 2.2- 4.6
sockeye = 0-1.0 = 1.0- 3.1 = 3.1- 6.3
steelhead = 0-1.4 = 1.4- 4.2 = 4.2- 8.1
whitefish = 0-0.4 = .4- 1.3 = 1.3- 2.7
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Thanks for the great news, Barry. I guess this means they can hide, but
they can't run, which is good, because I can't either.
(PS - Carp are last. So there.)
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Interesting...
But what about fish STRENGTH, actual amount of "pull" per pound?
Any data to that effect? It would be neat to see which fish is rated as
the strongest in regards to a HorsePower to weight ratio.
PS. (No, I'm not being sarcastic)
PPS. (No, I'm not trying to prove a point, just curious!)
*
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Hey Bobber I didn't think people fished for carp, I thought that if
you wanted one you just went out and shot it with your bow then winched
it in!
Mac, I think that it's directly related to burst and sustained speed.
power to get out of the hole = burst and endurance = sustained power. I
believe that the strongest of the oncorhynchus family is either the Thompson
river steelhead or Dean river steelhead. I think it's the Thompson fish
though.They've been swimming through Hells Gate for a few thousand years.
I wouldn't stake my life on this info without a little more research.
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Force = Mass x Acceleration. There's an answer in there somewhere. Where's
a physics prof when you really need one ?
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If mass of two different species of fish were equal than acceleration would
be the deciding factor. Sounds right, I think.
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barry how well does a steelhead fight if it has no current to it's advantage?
Say in the chuck or a lake. I've caught trout here in Ok lake in the
5 to 7 lb. range. I'll put them up agains any 5 to 7lb. fish in B.C.
I use a 7# rod and they make it work.
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That's a good question. Water temperature has a lot to do with fish
speed. The warmer the water the faster the fish can swim, this is true to
a certain point. So what you say is quite possibly true. To get comparable
numbers all fish would have to be tested in the same conditions. Steelhead
are often caught in cold temps. I guess that's why some people say that
they don't fight very well. Often a 8 or 9 pound fish will out perform
a larger fish. Maybe it's got something to do with "little fish
syndrome".
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Barry, You're also forgetting, that those figures are VERY general.
Within every river and every race of fish, there are characteristics that
make them faster or slower than fish of the same
size and samse species and be able to hold
better/worse burst speeds. For instance,
the Thompson River steelhead and Dean river
steelhead were found to have 4 times the
Stamina of steelhead from other streams of the
same size. Where they come from and the characteristics of their streams
are what make
them unique, and will thus give them
varying abilities. I mean maybe you
can calculate an average stream length
and look at the characteristics of
an average stream liength wise and size
wise and then take the fish from that stream,
but its really a stream to stream basis. Scott
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barry that "little fish syndrome" that's one I have been mulling
over for years. There condition and cycle. They would have to be in there
prime.
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Scott,
You are correct, the numbers are very general but who has the time or money
to test every species from every location. You could get a different result
every time if you used different fish from the same river. That's why
the numbers are only an average. And like Fishcarver said the fish would
need to be in their prime, that would also involve lots of testing.
Simply thought it was interesting info.
It just proves Steelhead rule! ( in my mind )
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This is an interesting topic. I read an article last year where they can
judge stamina by the number of scales on the bilateral line and the mighty
steelhead ran a close second to the kamloops rainbow. I would really like
to know the difference in stamina between the different strains of rainbows.
I know Stump has both Blackwaters and Gerrards and the fight is completely
different. Good topic! Prof.
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rivers inlet springs really motor. looks pretty impressive when they are
scooting along just under the surface.
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How well do you know your fish?
Question;
The Dolly Vardden is the only fish in B.C. with a first and last name like
you. That's why both names are capitalized. Where did it get it's
name?
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I also read an article on Gerrards. It seems they've tried to transplant
that strain of rainbow in other areas but, they just turn out as normal
rainbows not the exceptional fighters like the Gerrards. Apparently the
fighting skills come about because of Environmental factors, not because
the fish is made up differently. I seem to recall it having something to
do with the water temperatures effect on the eggs thru fry stages of the
fish. Seems it was very hard to dupplicate or something along that line.
Prof, do you remember in what or where you read the article? I'm curious,
I've never heard of that.
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One other thought, If you could get a Gerrard to go to the ocean for a few
years what would that fight be like?
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Prof what are the big trout in Shuswap Lk.? Are they Kamloops trout or there
own strain.
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Dolly Varden was a whore and a real person hence the name. You guys are
pretty much at a 2 month delay in how fast you pick on subtle hints. Prof
what exactly is the bilateral line and why would the number of scales be
that important? Do salmonids have a relatively fixed number of scales that
grow larger as the fish gets larger. One thing that I learned in school
was fish length is directly proportional to swimming speed. I would put
a 50" chinook ahead of a 30" steelie anyday.
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Gene Wrong Oh and both fish have to be the same size and weight.
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Wasn't Dolly Varden a fictional character that led to extravagent attire
in England during the 1800's. Some dude (Lewis or Clark) christened
the Dolly out of respect for her beautiful colours. Something like that
anyway.
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Tyler that's getting close.
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Sorry, Barry I don't remember where I read the article but I'll
bet it was BC Outdoors. Besides just about every fly tying mag I get that
is the only "fishing" mag I have a subscription to and I know for
sure the article dealt strictly with kamloops rainbows. I remember reading
an article on how smart caught and released kamloopsis were becoming and
the growing popularity this fish was "enjoying". I think it might
have been that one.
Does BC Outdoors not have a website because I think their archives would
get a lot of use. If I were a smarter man I would save these articles that
stick out in my mind. Actually Fishcarver I don't remember what strain
is in Shuswap but it is not kamloops. Might be Tzensaicut and yes I know
I spelled it wrong. The bilateral line is the line that goes down each side
of the fish that senses vibration allowing the fish to hear so to speak
not that just because it can hear, it can speak! Now I'm confusing myself,
gotta go! Prof.
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John,
The fish that are getting so big in Stump are actually Fraser Valley rainbows.
They've been developed at the Fraser Valley Trout Hatchery, hence the
name, and they are very agressive fish which grow very quickly. I doubt
if the fish in Shuswap are Tzenzaicuts as they haven't been stocked
for all that long yet.
I think this is the first year that the Tzenzaicuts in Tunkwa will be back
to spawn so it will be interesting to see how well they've done compared
to the natives which I believe are originally from Pennask. I know in Dragon,
the Blackwaters and the Tzenzaicuts seem to grow at about the same rate
to a certain size and then the Blackwaters keep getting larger while the
Tzenzaicuts level off. Isn't it amazing how all the different strains
show so many different characteristics? Hope some of this made sense.
Steve
*by the way it's called the lateral line*
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Steve I read they put Fraser vally bows in Pinaus Lk. to help with the perch
problem. I guess they really suck up the fry.
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Steve,
I know there are at least two strains of rainbows in Stump and I know there
have been triploids transplanted. Now these FV 'Bows, are they diploids?
And I think I called it a bilateral
line because it goes both ways!!
We do have a lime plantation but all the product
raised is doled out to the locals to throw at the tourists as they drive
by!! So what kind of vehicle do you drive, Steve??
Prof.
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Barry, Steve and All Interested Parties:
You must go to bcadventure.com and look under lake fishing. There are three
excellent articles on kamloopsis and regular rainbows. It delves into what
we were talking about. Kamloops rainbows can
accelerate from 0-23 mph in one second. The last article also deals with
the LATERAL line and the inner ear. Now that I have read the facts it was
rows of scales on the lateral line and not scales
on the line. I found it very interesting where it pertains to the trout's
ability to see certain colours better. This article helps to explain why
yellow patterns work so well up here. Read it and you'll be amazed by
some of the facts. Prof.
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A legenary figure here in the UK, now sadly deceased, was Sam Holland. He
ran a small still water trout fishery in Hampshire (Avington) close
to the River Test back in the 70's. He also reared rainbow trout to
stock his own lakes and also sold some on. His fish were renowned both for
the size he could rear and thier fighting strength.
He worked on the survival of the fittest principle, in that as the eggs
hatched in to alavins he turned up the water flow over the trays. He hatched
far more eggs than he required and allowed the weaker alavins to be washed
over the trays. When ready the survivors were eventually raised in raceways
as apposed to stew ponds. The resulting fish were obviously stronger for
this tougher regime.
I wonder has this anything to do with the type nursery streams of the stronger
fish you experience over there.
Mike
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Fishcarver,
I'm not sure if the Fraser Valleys are in Pinaus but I could find out.
They may be Blackwaters, both of these strains can be piscivorous, especially
the Blackwaters.
John,
I believe the Fraser Valleys in Stump are triploids but don't quote
me on it. I can find out for you if you want. Since were on the subject
of sterile fish,I was up in the Roche area with the BC Environment guys
in the fall doing some sampling on the FV3Ns (those are the triploids)
which were stocked into the brookie lakes (ie: Rose, Tulip, Horseshoe,
Black). The condition of these fish was amazing. Without the ability
to develop gonads, they don't spend energy on reproducing. Instead they
just focus on feeding and growing quickly. If you talk to Chan, ask him
about the results.
By the way, I drive a lemon so bring on the limes!
Steve
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Steve could you find out what strain the Shuswap Lk. rainbow is ?. Does
anybody know if steelhead go or have ever gone up the Shuswap river? and
how far?
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Dale,
I'll try and find out what strain the fish in Shuswap are this week.
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Dale,
The rainbows in Shuswap are Gerrards.
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Hey thanks Steve. I have wondered about that. I've caught trout in the
river that have a real bright orange sash on the gill plates. I think they
come up from the lake with the salmon. Nice chunky fish.
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