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'threadlining' the technique by which sockeye sportfishermen catch the majority of their fish is snagging-no-one can deny that. how long before someone outside the sportfishing community figures this out and the 'technique' is banned? the whole fishery is bogus;fish on the Abbotsford side and your fish are caught on the north side of the mouth;fish one the Mission side and the hook is on the OUTSIDE of the south side of the mouth. THIS IS FACT!! how some people can sleep at night i don't know. this post is not meant to point fingers at anyone in particular but i want people to think about what they and their friends are actually doing. we carp and b**ch about habitat loss,commercial depradations,etc.,etc. yet when the Fraser was red-lined the howling could be heard all the way to Prince George if not beyond. hypocrisy is so excruciatingly exquisite-don't you agree?
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Likewise I'm not comfortable with sportfisheries based on flossing - but I doubt we can do anything about it. On the other hand there are many fisherman who disagree - they say flossing is not as prevalent as some say - that sockeye often do bite. Certainly this must be the case in saltwater were trolling is the main technique. Likewise in freshwater I would guess that grossly obvious foul hooking in the fins, body would be much more prevalent than snagging in the mouth. Much more surface area for the hook to grab. Never having fished much for sockeye I can't say one way or the other.
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Bender, It is quite obvious you are not only an expert saltwater angler but amazingly you also know everything there is to know about "threadlining" sockeye on Fraser River. Therefore, I offer this cordial invitation for you to join myself and a few other Fraser River guides who helped pioneer this fishery, for a day's sockeye fishing. There is, however, a few catches: 1. You bring your best "bare" hooks only and your best threadlining, flossing, sweeping or snagging rod and reel you own. Remember: If you're "threadling" these fish you won't or don't need any wool or any other attractant. 2. I pick the day. A day when it is scratch fishing only. 3. I film what you and the other guides catch and run it on Angling B.C., for all to see. 4. You offer to write the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans a letter explaining your findings and post that letter here (on this board) for all to see. I look forward to your reply. Good Fishin' Ken Kristian
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glad to see my post has garnered some response on what is at times a rather moribund board. #1 i don't understand your wanting ME to bring threadlining gear.i don't do it-never have-never will.the one time i fished for sox on the Fraser i used a chartreuse corky and an 18"leader. are you suggesting I show YOU how it's done?a local tackle store(try Fred's in Vedder Crossing) could do a much better job than an inexperienced peon such as i explaining what 10 ft leaders with backer foam on the hook are for. #2 what is 'scratch fishing'? #3 film all you want but i warn you i'm not much to look at.no-let me rephrase that-there's a lot of me to look at but none of it is pretty ;-) #4 fine i'd love to-it's a deal! some questions-how can we fish now that the Fraser is closed?do you have some sort of dispensation?or maybe a magic wand? ;-) i love to fish and you'll find i'm an upbeat straightforward on time no BS kind of a guy. looking forward to meeting you-seriously-check your e-mail for my phone#
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Bender, Just as I thought. You and the majority of other so-called fishermen that condemn the Fraser River sockeye fishery with your sanctimonious mutterings no little or nothing of what you speak. I am suggesting you stand by your words in the post above and show all of British Columbia's anglers how successful you are at threadlining, snagging, flossing or sweeping sockeye on the Fraser River under my above-mentioned terms. In simple words, "scratch-fishing" is when there are very few fish(sockeye)in the river to be caught. I wouldn't want you to claim that there were so many fish swimming in the river that it was a piece of cake snagging them (in the north or south side of the mouth) with your bare, barbless hook. No sir Mr. Bender, you're not only going to show the former guide how easily it's done, fact is, you're going to show us all. Thank you for the permission to film yourself and your day of sockeye "threadlining" on the Fraser River. A regional director with DFO has just requested some footage on various sockeye fisheries. You see Bender, I already have more than enough footage to prove my point(s) on the what color(s) trigger sockeye to bite in the Fraser, however, I am a little short of some quality clips that feature an experienced angler whackin' and stackin' 'em on a bare, barbless hook. Sorry Bender, no magic wands or illegal fishing in my bag of tricks. I now have your name and number in my files, so you can expect a call at the first hint of a sport-fishing sockeye opening on the Fraser River next season. Oh, by the way Bender, don't forget the letter to DFO(preferably right to the top)explaining your findings. I'm sure we will all be waiting anxiously for your sockeye threadlining letter to appear as a post on this board. On a final note, I'll be sleepin' good tonight! Good Fishin' Ken Kristian
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Hey Ken, I'm gonna say something that will prove I'm not here to make friends all the time, and I'm here to conserve our fish. Regardless of this testosterone filled argument between you and your buddy Mr. Bender, why are you spending so much of your time concerning yourself with your ability to guide and catch fish. Ken, I'm sure you are a great fishermen, a great guide and can show anyone a great time on the River and I'm sure you can get any Sockeye to just about forget about spawning all together and bite your presentation. Well, its a fact, Mr. Bender is right, people do floss fish, and hes fed up with it. He has every right to be. At least he voices his opinion, and at least he has his mind in the right position. You're so insulted when he told you couldnt catch fish in the mouth, that you took it to heart and you have to always have the last laugh. What does that say about your patience as an Angler Ken? Why are you concerning yourself with this? Why are you calling upon your bum buddy, Mr. Regional DFO guy over there, to request footage, a report, etc, etc? What, to prove your power? I find this hard to very upsurd. I almost got my ass thorougly kicked last week and you didn't seem to give a •••• and this was in defense of our fish stocks. Why dont you tell your regional bum buddy DFO officer to do something about the snagging at the Capilano instead of sacrifice his time to prove a point and satisfy your testosterone level. Why dont you voice how disgusted you are by the fact that the DFO has failed to show up in two seperate incidents of me calling in and reporting Snagging incidents where one Coho was killed? I dont know about you Ken, but this whole flossing issue isn't something to bend over backwards about. Its sad that the DFO is too busy conerning themselves (at least from what you've said) with this, and not concerning them with the poaching thats going on right under their face, every day, especially at places like the Cap and Chehalis River. All I know, is yesterday I could see two nice yellow bruises on both sides of my nose. Use your influence and power a little more effectively, then to satisfy your personal interests Ken. You know people are flossing, even great anglers do it. Scott.
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Ken-very much looking forward to your showing me how to fish for sox in the Fraser WITHOUT threadlining. as i said in my earlier post I DON'T SNAG.never have,never will,so don't expect me to show up with snagging gear. learning a new technique will be something to look forward to;a person always needs something to look forward to. when this event happens can i share your technique with everyone in cyberspace?or is it only for the initiated? in any case-standing by. also i hope you realize that YOU are the one who's been snagged here.it's a little painful to me to have to point that out to you but someone has to. LOL
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Scott & Bender, Firstly, Scott, if you'd slow down, pay attention and quit showing us all that you can type 60 words per minute, perhaps you'd learn a thing or two. Secondly, to set the record straight, I no longer guide on the Fraser River, or any other river, lake or stream in British Columbia. That's what "former guide" means. Thirdly, when we have so-called anglers with little or no experience running around saying that a total sport fishery is bogus, or we can't release sockeye salmon without killing them, there is no better way to put an end to "all" freshwater salmon fishing. Believe me Scott, at the present time DFO is looking for any and all excuses to close down "ALL" freshwater salmon fishing. I'm fighting for everyones' rights as anglers and Canadians to equally enjoy a resource that belongs to all ... and not just a select few. Before anyone runs off at the mouth about the evils of any freshwater salmon fishery, please think of the consequences first. In another post on this board, I tried to explain to Bender that saltwater fisheries may be doing a little more damage than he suspected. Sadly, it seems to have gone in one ear and right out the other. Where would so many coastal lodges, guides, tackle-related suppliers and spin-off businesses be without a viable saltwater salmon fishery? The same place we in the Fraser Valley are at right now without a freshwater salmon fishery. Sliding downhill like a snowball headed for hell. Fourthly, DFO wants film footage to prove that this (and others) are clean fisheries. Mr. Bender will prove this point for all British Columbians, and he'll have nothing but fun doing it. I believe Bender thinks I'm trying to trick him into something illegal, nothing could be further from the truth. Here we have an angler who is convinced that the only way to catch a sockeye on the Fraser River is through threadlining or snagging the fish. Bender's results will speak for themselves. Scott, as far as you getting your rear kicked protecting our fish stocks, it probably won't be the last time if you use tactics like that again. Consider yourself lucky that those two guys never had a gun and used it. Remember: Observe, Record and Report. If there's other anglers around to help or confront the violators, then by all means let the bottom-feeders know they are breaking the law. If not, leave it alone. The graveyards are full of would-be heroes. Hope this clears the air a little. Good Fishin' Ken Kristian
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Keep up the great work Ken.As we all have the same goals in mind...to save and protect the stocks and enjoy our favorite sport. Tight lines
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When I go sockeye fishing on the Fraser, I always use a 6 foot leader with a bare 2/0 red Gamakatsu. It floats at just the right depth to get the leader running thru their mouths. I've had no trouble limiting out almost every time out using this method. When fishing in closer to shore, I like to use a float and a shorter leader with a bare hook. I have one question, how can wool color matter to these fish when the visibility in the river is about 6 inches and the current is moving that fast? I know this is a meat fishery, it's fun, they're great fighters, but I'm going out there to bring home my two fish for the BBQ. Once I beach my two fish, I'm on my way home. I don't agree with people who stay out all day releasing fish after fish. Especially last year when the water was so warm, tell me the mortality rate wasn't high from guys dragging fish up on the rocks, pulling the hook out and then nudging the fish back into the water with their feet! So, go ahead and use your corkies or your spin'n glos or your special color wool, you're only leaving more junk in the river every time you bust off. Don't condemn those of us who are using the fishery, not abusing it.
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Steve: I generally agree with your comments on catch and release of sockeye. When the river is so crowded and the water warm enough to affect fish mortality people should take a fish or two and go home and fire up the BBQ.
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Fellow Anglers, This is my final post on this subject. Firstly, since we have expert anglers who know for a fact that the color of lure "does not" make a bit of difference when angling for salmon on the Fraser River, it's apparent that my fishing reports are no longer needed around here. I'll be keenly watching for Mr. Olsen's reports on how we can catch all species of salmon in the Fraser on bare hooks. Think of the money you can all save on Spin 'N Glos for chinook, wool, spoons and flys. Secondly, the reason anglers are "NOT" fishing the Fraser River (and other rivers soon) right now (and probably won't be in the future), are due to comments like those above. Lastly, I guess it's true, loose lips sink a heck of a lot more than ships. They sink entire sport-fisheries too. Good Fishin' Ken Kristian
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I thought it was clear in my post that I was "flossing" sockeye, only. I don't use this technique anywhere else, for any other species. I'm not saying that chinook or steelhead won't take a spin'n glo when you're bar fishing. That is a little different situation. The lure is sitting stationary, vibrating so the fish can find it. It is not sweeping past at the speed of the current. And when the Fraser clears up when it's not in freshet, I don't doubt that color or lure choice matter. The point I was making is that during sockeye season the visibility is very low and the current in the areas we fish is very swift. In these conditions I don't see how color or lure choice can be factors in ones' success. Under the right conditions, which seem to be slow moving/clear water, sockeye will bite selectively. That's been proven on the Harrison with krill and in the creek mouths with bugs. In the mainstem Fraser though I would dare say that it would be pretty difficult for the fish to pick and choose what color to bite when they can't see it until it hits them in the nose and then it's gone in an instant. Once again, I am sorry that the DFO has shut the river down because of my ignorant method of sockeye angling. I suppose it would be better if I used a more sporting method; how about......... gillnetting?
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I have to speak up about the topic of "threadlining" and "snagging" of sockeye when fishing the Fraser, or any other waters for that matter. It is clear to me that there are several fisher's conversing on this topic that really don't know how to fish for sockeye. In fact, I wouldn't even waste my words by calling them sport fishers. Fishing with bare hooks is, in my mind and those of my fishing buds, snagging, pure and simple. It is illegal and the angler is clearly intentionally trying to "snag" the fish. There is no enticement whatsoever. If I saw anyone fishing in that manner anywhere near me, I'd run them off the river and report them to the authorities. As for "threadlining", it is a highly effective method for catching sockeye. Many anglers have fished for these fish over the years and, as with any other technique, have developed the most successful way to catch these fish. I use the technique myself and virtually every fish I have caught that was was hooked in the mouth. Coincidence? I don't think so. I have seen many "experienced" and novice anglers using the technique too. However, instead of trying to entice the fish to bite the lure, their objective seems to be to get more fish than the next guy so they can earn bragging rights. They cast out, let their lure drift and then pull sharply at the end of the drift and try to snag what doesn't bite. They pull so hard, you can hear their lines cut through the water from 100 feet away!! These guys are not true sport fishers, they are meat hunters. They give everyone a bad name. As for color, there is no doubt that there are certain color combinations that are more effective in catching sockeye, or any other species for that matter. It took me a few years to learn the right patterns for any given water conditions. I have been skunked more times than I care to imagine in the early goings, but now I have the techniques nailed down and my success rate has gone up dramatically. Even then, there are days when the fish don't seem to want to bite, but the "snaggers" ( and that includes threadline fishers who don't care about anything other than trying to get a fish on the beach - and there are many)outperform me. Do stoop to their level so I can take a fish home? No, I learn by my experience and try something a litte different next time (shorter or longer leader, heavier or lighter weight, cast farther from shore or closer, larger wool presentation or smaller, different colours, etc...) To Steve Olson, fish can see better than you think. Just because you think the visibility is only 6 inches doesn't mean it is true. The next time you think the water is in that condition, I challenge you to put on a face mask and lie in the river and let a friend drift a colourful streamer of wool past you. You'll change your opinion on that real quick. Also, fish are sight predators and their vision is better adapted than the human eye, so they'll out perform you every time under the same conditions. Give that some thought. I usually can tell by the color of the water, which colour patterns will be the most effective and up my success rate. If my first chosen pattern doesn't work, I mix and blend and change until I find the right combination. I do this for every species in every body of water. Does it work? Absolutely!! If you are ever fishing beside me, I'll prove it. We need to get away from all this rhetoric and get down to teaching "snaggers" better etiquette. We need DFO enforcement officers in plain clothes monitoring the fisheries and catching and punishing the roque fishers who give us all a bad name (and that includes some of you who post to this site). Do I hurt you masculinity when I say that? Do I make you feel bad? Too bad, I don't really care. It only hurts all of the truly committed sport fishers when the roques post their crap on this site and fish in the manner that they do and there are a lot of them out there. Just because one fishes, doesn't mean they are good at what they do. Get with it and learn. You'll find the experience much more enjoyable when you can actually catch a fish instead of sagging one.
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My personal opinion on the topic is that sockeyes are not being flossed. The majority of the sockeyes that I have caught or have seen caught have been on lures that have an element of green in them such as yarn, corkies, spin n'glos. If sockeyes are being snagged, it would stand to reason that ANY colour of lures will do the job. This is simply not the case.
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Mr. Olson, Sorry about the spelling, I didn't catch it until after my post was up. I can assure you that even with as little as six inches to one foot of visibility on the Fraser River, your success can be determined by small differences in lure color and presentation. I have plenty of film footage to prove my points on the effectiveness of using certain lure colors and size of presentations on the Fraser. What I would like to know is, where you gathered all the information on how far a particular fish (sockeye, chinook, steelhead, pinks) can see any given lure or hook during during different stages of turbidity on the Fraser (or for that matter, any given river, creek or stream)? How do you know they (the sockeye) are not biting your bare hook? (i.e. Lake Washington sockeye fishery = single red hook, Johnstone Strait chum fishery = single tiny glo bead and black hook). As a former commercial troller and angling guide who has "taken the time to learn" something about various salmon fisheries in B.C.-- and who has tried thousands of gear combinations and presentations -- I know from years of experience and thousands of dead salmon, you are seriously underestimating the visual capabilities of a salmon ... any mature salmon. It's not your angling method that has the Fraser River closed to all salmon angling, it is anglers telling DFO (they monitor this site) in their own words that they are snagging, threadlining and flossing the fish. There has also been many claims made that anglers were snagging sockeye on the Harrison (DFO was checking fish scale samples and asking about snagging at Kilby last weekend) and chinook on the Chehalis, sockeye on the Vedder/Chilliwack and chums on the Stave last season. That's exactly the ammunition DFO requires to shut down "ALL" freshwater salmon angling in the Lower Mainland. DFO is stating that if it comes directly from the anglers, it must true). On a final note, the majority of anglers don't believe it will happen. DFO could never close down all our freshwater salmon fishing. Think about the fishing opportunities we have given up over the last couple of years and are giving up one after the other right now. Ken Kristian
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I think the key word in Steve Olson first post was "red gamakatsu". It wasn't bronze or black. I watch a fellow angler on Chilliwack lake catch and release kokanee on bare red hooks. Also "flossing" doesn't always work.I caught sockeye on a short leader and green wool while others with long leaders and wool were not.Yes we were side by side and the hook was IN the mouth,not on the outside pointing in.
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Most of the sockeyes caught on the Fraser are flossed, but they battle hard and taste so good......
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I would like to add some words of support for Ken and the time and energy he has dedicated to the fish of BC. I truly believe he is looking to the future. He has a vision of the "big picture"; how to increase wild salmon, trout, steelhead, and sturgeon in what he calls the "greatest salmon river in the world". Some examples of this are 1. his timely fishing reports which include up to date regulations and safety precautions. 2. his maps and articles on where and how to catch more fish. 3. lots of advice for people asking for it. 4. updates on environmental issues such as the pollution in the Fraser and the possible relationship with sturgeon deaths. 5. phone calls and meetings with influential fisheries people stressing the importance of recreational fishing and many others. Instead of discussing who is right and wrong in the sportfishing world, we should respect each fishers' chosen method of angling (as long as it is legal) and come together to fight the larger causes of salmon decline. Although poaching and unethical fishing is a problem that should not be ignored or tolerated, I believe that the political decisions that are regularly made for and behalf of fish and wildlife by Canada's elected or appointed officials plays a much larger role in fish and habitat issues. Recreational fishers should unite in a jointed effort to lobby for our rights to sportfish with our chosen method whether it be by harvesting fish from healthy stocks for personal consumption or catch and release. There are lots of different reasons for people to fish, but we should have one common goal. Allow more fish to reach the spawning beds while allowing the most people to participate and provide the least amount of environmental damage while allowing the greatest economic impact to BC. Dave
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Your post hits right to home, Dave. There a very few people in this province who dedicate more time and effort to preserving & promoting Freshwater fishing than Ken Kristian. His devotion includes many long hours lobbying and meeting with the various levels of government on all of our behalf and he should be receiving praise, not criticism. If some of the other posters put half as much effort into lobbying as they put into complaining, our fisheries wouldn't be in such sorry shape. More on the united front, Dave. I would like to encourage all sports anglers (freshor salt, fly or gear) to join one of the many well-established and reputable angling associations in our province. Groups such as the Fraser River Salmon Society, Save our Salmon, The BCFederation of Fly Fishers (BCFFF),Trout Unlimited (TU) or the organization I belong to the BC Federation of Drift Fishers (BCFDF). The only way governments will recognize the value of the sports fisheries is to continously lobby them with representation of great numbers and voting power. The "Alliance of Angling Associations" was formed last year between the BCFDF, TU, and the BCFFF for just that purpose. Its your sport......Get Involved.
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You guys who are claiming to be flossing or whatever are pure and simple poachers. I personnally believe that the Sockeyes react to the wool or the red bare hook because it triggers a primal memory. Food is passing by. However if you don't think so and you go out to intentionally "snag" a few you don't deserve the right to fish. Enough with it's only a couple for the Barbie. What are you nuts? Ken is right, keep up the talk and DFO will shut you down and then you floss your own teeth.
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Sure some fish are flossed but I have to agree with Ken that if the colour is right the fish will bite. For the few times I got out this year I found that most of the fish that I saw caught were caught on red wool with a bit of green or chartruese. To Scott! I know you haven't clued in but the reason Ken talks about his ability to fish is to be able to prove to Rodbender that Sockeye do in fact bite and that Rodbender doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. Ken has probably fished more than anyone on this fishing site and knows from expieriance that if the colour is right the Sockeye can be caught fairly. HEY STEVE OLSON. YOU LIKE TO USE BARE HOOKS AND YOU DON'T THINK COLOUR MATTERS THEN HOW COME YOU USE RED GAMAKATSUS AND NOT BLACK OR SILVER. DOES THE COLOUR OF HOOK MATTER. Greg Leche
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HEY STEVE OLSON. YOU SAY THAT COLOUR OF LURE OR WOOL DOESN'T MATTER THEN WHY DO YOU USE RED GAMAKATSUS INSTEAD OF BLACK OR SILVER. dOES HOOK COLOUR MATTER???
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Well, I don't know if I should reply any longer since it seems to have been decided that I am the consummate "beak." It seems that I have unknowingly stumbled across the secret to sockeye success. The only reason I was using red gamakatsus is because they are lighter than the black or silver ones so they seem to float at the right depth. I had no idea that the fish were so keyed on red, why not use a larger hook and make it easier for them to see? Or do they prefer the small presentation? Since I seem to know nothing about the physical capabilities or the habits of Oncorhynchus nerka, perhaps someone who is current on the subject could direct me to an informative source?
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