Flyfishing- for the Beginner
Hi, folks. Some quick questions from a first-timer: Why do i have to use braided dacron as backing? Is regular mono o.k.? And tapered leaders, what about plain mono? Is the taper essential? Can one fish wet flies , streamers, and nymphs with a floating line? Does one often cast farther than the 90-foot fly line? How long of a cast is necessary for flyfishing salmon or steelhead in rivers? Help!

Braided dacron will not get a "memory" like mono will and especially if the backing is going to be packed down there for a couple of years, the last thing you need is for the backing to be all curly and birdsnest on you when the big one takes your line out down to the backing. Tapered leaders are needed to transfer the energy from the fly line down to the fly by progressively smaller diameter lines in order to get the casting loop to turn over properly. If a tapered leader is not used, the casting will be tough as the casting loop will tend to "hinge" at the fly line to leader connection point. Yes, you can fish all those flies with a floating line - by changing the length of the leader you can change the depth that the fly will sink. The reasons for getting sink-tip or full sink line are to fish flies like scuds and dragonfly nymphs right off the bottom where the naturals are. Nobody I know can cast more than 60 or 70 feet worth of fly line at a time and most fly fishing is done within 30-40 feet of you anyway and that applies to both lakes and streams. Casting for salmon and steelhead in rivers is a function of the river size, current speed and the target "lie" where you want the fly to go. Only on big water like the Thompson, Fraser, Skeena etc. do you need to worry about long casts and even then, fish generally hold in certain areas that you can sneak up on to use shorter casts.
Cheers

Thanks! You've convinced me on the backing, as well as tapered leaders. What the heck is a strike indicator? I guess I'll need waders as well, if only to provide backcasting space.
Do i need to literally "match the hatch", or are there some standard patterns that I should have on hand at all times? And what's up with tippets? can't I just tie the fly to the leader?

A strike indicator is a small twist-on piece of fluff or brightly coloured foam "miniature bobber" if you will, that you use to set the depth of a wet fly or sinking nymph like a chironomid or whatever, and as well it acts like a bobber- if it moves or twitches, lift the rod and see if you got something!

Waders are nice especially in colder waters, but I spend a lot of time in just shorts bare legged wading creeks and small streams in the summer. Waders will give you year round access to water and will allow you to use a float tube if you get one of those later on.

Matching the hatch- well, not really- you can get away with a few "representative type" flies that can be fished to look like something edible to the fish. This subject rates whole books so I'm not going to lead you on too much- I suggest you check out some of the local fly shops and look for their "pre-packaged" fly boxes where they've filled a small fly box with a bunch of the "local patterns" depending on whether you're lake fishing for trout or going after cutthroat, or whatever. I've seen these at Berry's and other Tackle shops. Matching the hatch only really applies about 20% of the time in lakes and streams, when you can actually see a lot of bug activity that the fish are keying in on. For example- in June at some of the interior lakes, a large brown mayfly will be hatching in great numbers - the trout will be going after the nymphs as they emerge from the bottom of the lake during the afternoon and then they will go after the emerging flies in the surface film during the early evening and then they will take some of the adult flies off the surface later on. The trick is to look at the water, see what kind of trout food is available and try to use something that looks like a typical food item- scuds, dragonfly nymphs, leeches, etc.

Tippets are the fine mono that you use to tie the fly to the leader with. Normally regular mono is a bit thick, even 4lb test stuff and there are a lot of specialty tippets you can get that have a smaller diameter for an equivalent strength. The tippet is important for a few reasons:

1. The slightly smaller diameter of the tippet will disappear in the water, thus you don't spook the fish.

2. The tippet is normally the weakest link in the leader, so if you snag up or catch a tree you can break off the fly without losing a bunch of leader line- you just lose a foot or two of tippet which can be easily re-tied. Usually the tippet will break at the knot at the fly so you only lose an inch or two of tippet and then you just tie on another fly.

3. The tippet material usually has a bit of "give" or stretch to allow a hard take by the fish without it snapping off right away.

Always tie on a few feet of tippet off the end of a tapered leader. For most applications a 3lb test tippet about two to three feet long will be all you need off a nine foot tapered leader. The rule is- the smaller the fly you intend to fish, the smaller the tippet (size as in diameter or pound test).
Cheers.

I must be doing something wrong....I fished an olive wooly bugger with a gold head at Buntzen yesterday, to no avail. wrong pattern, or wrong depth perhaps?
when fishing nymphs on still water, should I retreive them?
What about the retrieve on the wooly bugger?

Hey, that's why they call it fishing, not catching. What was your time, location and depth? Buntzen usually fishes well along the drop-off in around 20 feet of water mainly during early morning or evening when the lake is in shadow, so you'll need a full sink line with a slow retrieve or trolling speed to keep even a bead-head down that deep.

Fishing nymphs on still waters: a long slow pull to simulate a nymph emerging from the bottom can help attract a strike, and then when the nymph is fished on a greased leader so it's right in the surface film, a few twitches help attract attention as well.

The wooly bugger retrieve can vary, depending on what you are trying to make it look like- slow retrieve with a few jerks thrown in will simulate a dragonfly nymph, while a retrieve consisting of long slow pulls will simulate a swimming leech, or sometimes just dragging it past the fish will get a strike if they are in the mood.

Fishing is not an instant gratification exercise.
Cheers.

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Though I agree that lots of the meaning and some of the fun of fishing is in the tricky details that may eventually result in a strike, I'd say that FLYfishing is not an instant gratification exercise, while baitfishing and, to a lesser extent, spinning, can be :~)

I was fishing at exactly the worst time, mid-afternoon in full sun. I had a floating line w/indicator at 5 feet, and a 'b' shot about 10' ahead of the bugger.

So, am i to understand that a wet fly must always be retreived on still water? I've heard that some boat flyfishers fish one line still and retrieve annother, but they have the benefit of the current drift.

I was pleased with the action of the woolly bugger, though. Looked delicious to me! It makes me wonder why trolling bucktails for salmon has fallen out of fashion.

d

Wet fly on still water: Well, generally, yes, you have to give the fly some action so it acts like the bug you wish it to represent. If you watch the bugs in the water, they are always moving around, some quickly, some slowly, and that's what the fish are looking for- that bit of movement that catches their attention and then they'll come over to look and if they are in a feeding mood, well, they just might slurp it in.

So, tell my your top three wet attractor flies for bc lakes..

I know this is too general a question, but take a shot at it.

Top three wet attractor flies for BC waters:

Doc Spratley with black and gold ribbed body (or green body).

Olive and black wooley bugger with grizzly palmered hackle.

Black tinsel leech.

Had great luck on all these while prospecting lakes when nothing was showing, trolled along the shoals keeping the fly in about 10 to 15 feet of water. Cheers, G. McD.

I'd go along with Gmcd, except to add that the #1 attractor fly I have found over the past couple of years from fishing several lakes in the Cariboo, Thompson Nicolla and Salmon Arm area has been a green maribou wooley bugger with a brass bead head and some tinsel strands. I have replaced this fly a few times now. Not because I lost them, but because the fish have shredded them.
I have found that the combination of the bead head with the tinsel strands does get the fish's attention.
Best of luck
Tyteline

Hey, thanks guys. Greg, what is a palmered hackle, and what does a doc spratley imitate? And do you mean troll, literally? David, do you use split shot w/ the green wooley?

I wonder when we'll be able to go after pinks with the flyrod....

dam

Palmered Hackle is a long hackle that has been spiralled around the whole length of the fly body rather than a dry fly hackle tie which is just the two or three wraps of hackle right at the thorax/head area of the fly.

A Doc Spratley doesn't really imitate anything, it's an attractor type fly that could be anything depending on how it's fished.

TROLLING: the act of slowly pulling the fly around the lake from a boat or float tube in hopes of getting a strike while trying not to fall asleep in the hot sun. Trolling speed is the fun part- some lakes, the fish like the fly going by pretty fast (say 2-3 kmh) while sometimes a dead slow troll will get action.

Pinks on the fly rod will be showing up within the next two weeks along the beaches in the salt chuck, so if you have a saltwater license, they are fair game along the north shore for the runs going up Indian River, and there may be some along Pt Grey for the runs going up the Fraser. My favorite spot is in the Harrison near Kilby in the first three weeks of September- super action.

Cheers, Geoff McDonell

Thanks, as usual. Can the Indian River pinks be fished from Indian Arm? I've heard that some anglers get into pinks from ambleside beach. True?

I know that pink wet flies are neccessary for pinks, but what size do you recommend, and what tippet strength? I guess this is where long casting is more relevant.

DAM

Yes, you might be able to get some pinks on the way by Ambleside. We've only ever targetted them in the Indian River estuary itself. For pink salmon I like flies in size 6 to 8 long shank with a silver tinsel wrapped body and lots of pink marabou with red or pink thread head. Check the local tackle shops, there's usually a lot of applicable flies available. Long casts are not necessarily a requirement- it depends where the fish show themselves- you can usually see them porpoising out of the water as the schools come by. When we fished on the Harrison in '97 we were in an anchored boat and at times all we had to do was hang a fly in the water right off the boat and we'd get takes. Although the pinks are not a large fish, a six wt. fly rod is a little light at times, a 7 or 8 wt. rod would be a better selection in my opinion, and also help with distance casts if you had to. I like a 6 lb test tippet and the fish are not leader shy- we generally use a maximum of 4 to 6 feet of leader off a sink-tip fly line.
Cheers.

Cool! They must be available in Indian Arm itself, then, but without going all the way to the end by the estuary, it would be tough to spot them.

dam

If you really want the Indian arm pinks,try accessing the river from the Squamish side.Right from the M&B mainline,it's only 37km on a real good gravel road.Takes about an hour.If your travelling from the north shore,the whole trip is less than 2 hours.You can drive it right down to the Interfor dock,that's too far.There are some great holding areas for the pinks,right below the twin bridges.They generally start to show themselves in good numbers,around the August long weekend.Good Luck

Dan

I have heard that the road in to the Indian is washed out somewhere along the river. Probably where the small creek ran across the road. That creek if memory sevres me right is a ways from the dock and there is no intention of repairing the road. This is what I have heard but if anyone has driven the road I would like to know the condition of the road.
Tight lines

Maybe there's decent holding water before the washout, if there is one. What about accessing these fish from the Anmore side?

Access from the other side is practical.If you have a boat,launching from Cates Park in North Van is the most logical.The run up to the river mouth,at about 35mph,takes about 25 min.You can tie up at the Interfor dock,walk up the road about 2km,and there are several secondary roads leading to the river,none of which is longer than a few hundred meters.You'll even see the river from the road in some spots,these lower reaches are where you want to be.The river only has a few miles of fishable water,theres a big set of falls,that are impassible.Give it a go,I don't think you'll be dissappointed.If you have a cell phone,take it with you,it can be isolated.

Dan

If the washout is where I think it is,there is no good fishable water. If you go by boat,take a mountian bike with you. You can cover more water.As for the cell,maybe from the dock but thats about it.

Well, flyfishing may be difficult to become expert at, but it's easy to get started. I've fished a fly with spinning gear at Buntzen, but this weekend, I tried my flyrod for the first time. After 5 minutes (and 1 snapped off doc spratley on the backcast) I was casting 45 feet clumisly, but effectively. By the end of a 4-hour fishing trip, I was casting a wobbly 60 feet, and learning to retrieve. I was fishing a WF7 floater with 9ft leader and 3 ft. tippet. I used a black bead-head wooly bugger with some tinselly stuff in the tail. I hooked 5 fish and landed 4: three rainbows and one cutthroat. So, for anyone interested in trying flyfishing for the first time, go for it!

Casting is not as difficult as it first seems, and it's a charge playing a fish with no gear on the line!

Dam, do yourself a favor, and your eyes a favor, and make sure you wear a pair of shades when you fly fish. Personally, I'd rather be catching fish, then snagging my eye open because I wasn't paying attention to my casts one time.
Hope this helps, Scott.

I'm beginning to understand the importance of a good drag-free drift, but what's wrong with just letting the current strip line downstream and then stripping the fly upstream? (leetch, muddler, even spratley). The only thing missing, it seems, is the 'fun' of casting. People don't seem to do this so there must be a reason this rookie isn't aware of. Comments?

I'm beginning to understand the importance of a good drag-free drift, but what's wrong with just letting the current strip line downstream and then stripping the fly upstream? (leech, muddler, even spratley). The only thing missing, it seems, is the 'fun' of casting. People don't seem to do this so there must be a reason this rookie isn't aware of. Comments?

Well, the reason is that the trout are looking for natural food and a bug/nymph does not swim upstream. If you use a streamer and you are targetting species like Dollies or other fish-eaters, then, yes, the downstream drift and strip upstream will work. The intent is to give the particular fly the action that represnets the natural bugs action. While this is the basic logic, I can also say that there are plenty of times when a "swung" fly (waked fly) will attract hits as well as a nymph swung downstream- it will be seen to rise up through the water as the line tension increases, and to a trout this looks like a nymph swimming to the surface to moult and emerge as a fly. Last Sunday on the Skagit was a typical example of this- the fish wouldn't sniff the dead drift, but when we let the fly swing to straight downstream we got lots of action. Think like a bug and then think like a trout to decide how the fly should be presented. Different bugs act differently and the trout know this.

Hey, Geoff, thanks for the info as usual. Aren't all trout fish-eaters? Do you ever get a hit when you're hauling your nymph back upstream for another up- or cross-stream cast?

I fished this way two weeks ago on the bow in calgary- the water was so fast, and there was no back-casting room. I was using black leeches and mickey finns. I caught one small brown, and another big trout (I saw it strike) broke me off immediately. But 6 or 7 times, fish followed my upstream swimming fly and refused to hit it. They even rushed it to within a nose, but didn't hit. Bizarre.

No, not all trout are fish eaters. Some of them will inhale a minnow from time to time, but the bulk of their food is bugs. Only certain species of trout will go after other fish on a regular basis- Dolly Varden for sure, large (certain species of) rainbows, Brown trout when they get to a certain size, large Cutts, large Brookies. The idea is to fish with what the local food source is. The streamers that got action for you were likely acting more like an attractor lure rather than a food thing, hence the "let's go investigate the thing" passes from the trout.
I've had hits on nymphs and dry flies only when they were rising up in the water column before I started a retrieve, haven't had any on a strip retrieve in a stream, but lots on lakes since the bugs in the lake are free to swim around and the trout key in on the motion.

I guess that's why gear fishermen don't have too much success with smaller fish in streams. I have caught small trout with a buzz-bomb in lakes, (I was young and ignorant, plus they cast a mile) but this was surely the annoyance factor, or predation of cometitors, rather than chasing a yummy meal. Think like a bug, think like a fish.

Fishing streams is intimidating for a newbie flyfisher, it's difficult to learn what water is good to fish. A pool is obvious, but what's a riffle? Can fish be present in clear water even when I can't see them?


dam

Could anybody help me? I am off to Quadra Island and want to know if there are any good fresh water spots to fly fish and if there are any salt water spots I could try. I have a boat reserved but am on a waitung list so was wondering about shore fishing. Any hhelp would be greatly appreciated

You can flyfish whether or not you get a boat, just be prepared to wade up to chest level, and/or make l-o-n-g casts. You should be able to get some coho close to shore on anchovy imitations, be sure to strip 'em really fast. Make sure you rinse your gear (especially reel and reel seat) in fresh water afterwards.

Let us know how you did.

In response to DAM: Geez, I actually think fishing streams is a hell of a lot easier than lakes. The reasons are: streams only have certain areas where the fish will hold- deeper water, current seams, under logs and brush and behind big rocks and boulders; streams usually have limited types of bug life and you can match the hatch easier; the trout are a bit more predatory and more willing to go for a fly- more opportunistic feeders; you can wade and "hunt" the fish easier on a stream, the broken water surface will tend to camouflage you and allows the trout (to his mind) a bit more cover. Lakes can be intimidating even if you stick to the basics of fishing dropoffs and shoals- the fish have a longer opportunity to check out your fly, there are a ton more types of bugs in the lakes, the fish tend to swim around as there is a lot more cover in terms of water depth, etc. Both Lakes and Streams offer different styles of fishing, and I, for one, would be hard pressed to say one is better than the other- each provides different fishing techniques to be learned and different fish habits to watch for.

Agreed- lakes and streams, different experiences and both fun. It's just tough, on water like the Coquitlam River, or the alouette for that matter, where there are kilometres of water of uniform depth with no fish visible- where to start? If I'm not getting strikes, I never know if there's no fish or if they dislike my offering. I know, I know, fishing, not catching.

dam

DAM: You have to remember that the local coastal streams are usually pretty barren unless there is a run of something happening. For example in the Allouette, there may be some resident trout in the upper reaches and a perhaps a few in the lower end where it's all diked and just like a long lake, but in spring when the salmon fry are coming out, it's action central and you know the big fish are there by the swirls and boils as they chase the fry. Most of the cutts and rainbows are very mobile along this end of the watershed- they will move about wherever the feed is and reside out in Pitt Lake at other times. The only other time there are prime fishing opportunities is when a run of salmon or steelhead move in. There are periods of the year when you could do a snorkel drift in the Coquitlam and the Allouette and see only the fry and fingerlings spending their initial growing stages in the river and there won't be anything over six inches. There are very few resident fish and they are likely so spooky that no one could get a hook near them. Cheers.

Geoff: That's annother reason I prefer lakes- resident trout, and other species.

I think the steelhead runs in the Coquitlam are a thing of the past. It does have some resident trout to 14", however. Snorkelling is an excellent idea to learn where to fish- that's how I learned to fish ling cod.

The rivers are COLD, though. I spent 2 hours this morning wading in shorts at Buntzen, and it took 2 more to thaw.:-)

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