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I was just wondering what others have found as the most effective retrieve for Leeches? I mainly fish scuds and chronomids, but sometimes troll leeches with varying results. Any help?
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Yo Todd, I have found that jerky retrieves really triggers the reaction instincts of kamloops rainbows. After the end of August my retrieves are of a quicker pace as the fish are keying in on leeches. As for during a chironimid hatch when trout are eating leeches to pack their stomachs I'll retrieve much more methodically with longer pauses, sometimes up to 10 seconds in between pulls. When you just aren't sure vary your retrieves between short, erratic pulls to long and slow. In reference to the other poster who thought fish were nosing leeches before the kill, they actually come up and nip at them, which puts them in defensive mode and they curl up. The trout then circles around and inhales them. One thing to keep in mind for the trollers is that when your fly gets that original nip, the tension on the line elevates the fly in the water column. You should instantly stop and wait or better yet I will feed about 10 ft. of line out to quickly drop the fly back down into the zone. A closing thought; I only use beadheaded or weighted leeches because that combined with the jerky pulls accentuates the undulating action associated with leeches. Prof.
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Sorry, I forgot to mention that when trolling don't go in a straight line. Most of the action will come when you are turning, thus altering the fly speed and depth. Prof.
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Coming from a central interior perspective. I fish leaches almost exclusively at Dragon Lake in Quesnel. And I find that the best retrieve is as slow as possible ......almost crawling on the bottom and through the weeds. Especially in cold weather. I also find that especially at Dragon ....the monster rainbows seem to hit the small skinny or what i refer to as Anorexic Leeches ......alot more than the fat boddied leeches.
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I have found that trolling leech patterns from my tube with rod out the side and using the rod to create a quick jerky motion. Its the same as retrieving your fly but your line and fly stays out there. You spend more time fishing than casting.
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You guys wanna try something killer, try trolling a black rooster tail. It looks exactly like a leech, but it has the spinner for attraction and vibration, or even better, take a leech pattern and put it on your tippet with a spinner above it on a mainline, a small one of course, but nonetheless a spinner, and trolling with it (in a boat preferably while you slowly jig very gently, not in short jerky motions, but long slow jigs. On a lake by the name of Spout lake in the interior this was one of the best trolling techniques we found. They sure had some killer hatches on that lake in May. It was wild. First you see a pile of birds come down, and then the fish just go nuts. Scott
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Scott, Trolling with hardware does not constitute flyfishing. And because you are fishing with a flyrod doesn't mean you are flyfishing. There are other pages on this site where your posting would be better suited. I enjoy this page because it is an escape from those bickering Vedder steelheaders They seem to have overrun sportfishingbc.com and I know your postings there are sometimes chastised for whatever reason. I personally enjoy reading your postings because they seem to be full of enthusiasm and a thirst for knowledge. By all means continue posting your comments and questions here as there are many well versed flyfishermen who regularly contribute to this page and you could only benefit from the time spent here. Of course I could be full of hot air and everyone else thinks your posting belongs here. I really don't know Scott but I just felt a little perturbed by it all. As for your "pile of birds" comment that is the first thing I look for in the spring when chironimids are so prolific. The swallows swoop down and snack on the emergers when they are so vulnerable in the surface film. Take care and I hope I didn't sound like a stuck up purist because that I'm not. Prof.
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When I look at fishing, I look at it this way, I will do anything it takes to get the fish. ANYTHING. If this means tying on pencil lead to my fly line with tubing to get it down in a river, I do it. When I have mastered a method for fishing for a certain species, such as say the Chums on the SQuamish, which I think I mastered, I look at is as graduation into a nother method of fishing for them. This coming year in October and November, I will be trying to fly fish for salmon a little more. Don't get your panties in a knot, that spinner, above the leech, the leech being a fly, made the difference, plain and simple. I dont know if you are a fly fishing purist or not, but I'm sure you can definately say that a fly rod is more suited to most lakes that you fish. Its suited to help you present flys or troll flys. Theres no rule in the world or no commandment that says I can't intermingle or match, somethings. Thats my take on things, and if you don't agree with it fine. I am with you, in getting away from the Vedder fishermen. I dont like fishing in crowded areas anymore than you do. Thats why I've probably steelheaded on more rivers than anyone this past year. Like I said, I do whatever it takes to get to the fish, and the name of my game for steelheading for winter steelhead, is more suited to drift fishing with floats, yarn, roe, whatever. Scott
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Scott the lakes the Pro. talks about are fairly easy to catch trout in. Choosing to use flyfishing gear just makes it a little more challenging. As far as crowding go's if there's more that say three boats on some of the lakes I fish, it's crowded.
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It also doesn't seem like you've grasped the key to fly fishing. Of any method of fishing, fly fishing in not about catching fish. You have presumably done that in advance of taking up the fly. It is rather a spiritual quest using fish as an excuse. You must grab hold of the tradition if you are to say that you fly fish. For every fly fisher, in some way or another, feels responsible to his/her predecessors and to the tradition he is now a part of. I am not a purist, far from it. I use spinning gear quite often. I just would like to become one of those magical people who can comfortably say they know enough, not all, just enough. |
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Most effective leech retrieve? Hmmmm. Is there one? I mean there are always differing retrieves suitable to differing conditions. As has already been stated, there are great strategies to be used in such conditions. I didn't respond earlier, cause I really don't know, but I'm trying to get back to something constructive.
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I think you missed the whole point- Tyler said it very clearly- it's not about catching fish, or being more effective in catching fish, it's about a different technique that provides a challenge and a different skill set. Sure, if I wanted to just go and catch fish I'd be packing my spinning rod and a selection of flatfish and Panther Martins. In many conditions, there are a hell of a lot more effective ways to simply "catch fish" than fly fishing. The point is to use the minimal amount of "gear" between you and the fish, and you are trying to fool the fish with an imitation of a food item. Flyfishing allows this, as all you have between you and the fish is the line and a simple reel. Trolling with a full sink line with a fly rod isn't much different than trolling a willowleaf and a worm - where's the sport in that? Properly used, the sinking line is cast and retrieved like other fly lines, but you are getting your fly down into the "zone". I troll around with my sinking line until I find the fish, then I do the cast and retrieve thing. The fun is in the finding and fooling of the fish with just the fly worked to imitate the food. Actually catching fish is the bonus for the whole event. Most fishermen go through four stages of fishing: 1) The need to catch many fish. 2) The need to catch the biggest fish 3) The need to catch many big fish 4) The need to challenge themselves to catch any fish under conditions normally impossible to catch fish, any time. Once you realize that you don't need to catch fish and compete with the lower forms of life that see their manhood measured by quantity and size of fish, you'll find a heck of a lot more fun out there. The only competition that counts is the challenge to improve yourself and learn new things. You are well on the road to this and I hope to see you on the lakes this summer, and chasing salmon on the fly this fall up the valley. Cheers.
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Geoff you seemed to have left out the 5 th stage in a fisherman. 5) When a fisherman has failed at the above 4 stages the angler claims that one need not catch fish to have fun thus retaining the image one worked so hard to achieve. I agree that Scott should relax and take it all in before responding. "Last time I checked, I put 450 dollars into a spring rod, and 400 dollars into a baitcasting reel because I wanted to practice casting" Comments like these have no place on the board. It doesn't matter how much you spent on your equipment it is how you catch fish with the gear you have. It seems to me that a lot of less fortunate or just plain wiser anglers have been doing a lot more with a lot less. Best of luck on your casting Scott. By the time you are 30 you should be able to put it just about where you want it.
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Prof. I read in one of your former posts that were going to have an early ice off. Is this a promise?.
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As Dr. Evil says, quit humpin the frickin laser. John, not everyone was meant to agree, or we'd probably all live in some form of communist government, and we'd all own the same fishing rods, and same reels, and fish for the same fish.
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Hey John, I'm just wondering how much longer till the ice is off Stump. Can't wait to get up there and fish the kokanee with lime green bead head chironomids again. Last year I hooked 13 in a couple days and never landed one. They just went ballistic and every one of them busted me off in the reeds. Great fun, keep up the great posts. You're one of the few whose posts are always worth reading. |
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Fishcarver, I do still predict early ice off. I'm trying to base this on the mild weather but I think a portion of it is wishful thinking. Steve, I can talk about Stump for hours. I don't think there is a better quality early spring lake in the province. The shoal at the north end holds many, many big fish in April/May. Last week there was 14" of ice but a little warmer weather and those spring gale force winds and that'll break up in no time. Take care, Prof.
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Scott, I read your posts and often admire your enthusiam, contribution, and moxie then off you go on your aggressive and ill informed banter. Having patiently listened to your B.S. on this board for over a year now my patience is at an end. You have to be the most ignorant and obnoxious S.O.B.that I have encountered on the internet. Go see a Doctor and get on some kind of medication like Prozac or Vallium that will cool your jets. Maybe some sex would help. Try thinking about what you are reading rather than seeing almost every post as a personal affront, as this one is. My apologies to all the other great readers and contributors of this board, I just had to get that off my chest. Will probably regret it in an hour but that is what the a.....e side Scott does to me. Too bad that his cool side doesn't come thru more often. BTW to the Crab guys. I have seen some really productive crab fishin on the south side of the causeway at Tsawassen (sp?) and am going to get my Zodiac out there as soon as my sore back eases up. Would appreciate any info as to locations, bait or techniques in this or any other area. Does canned cat food work for Crabs as it appears to do for prawns/shrimp or do I stick with chicken backs and fish heads. Love a good feast of crab or any shellfish, especially with an Oriental black bean sauce. If I get some I will cook them up with the Coleman on the beach with a butter dip, some good French bread, and ...... Whew!! Peace, love,happiness, and good fishin to all, including Scott! Randall |
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All I can add Randall, is BRAVO, BRAVO. We have all admired his enthusiasm, but the inexperience of youth boistered by the self-centered bravado has made his posts intolerable. I find it quite ironic that he continuously remarks about not wanting to boost any of the other poster's ego when all he is really attempting to accomplish is the boost of his own. On to better things, stick with the chicken backs for crabs. they are cheap, and are easily "zapped strapped" to the center of the trap. I was out about a month ago in Indian arm and did get alot but they were still just undersize. Should be much better crabbing now. Cheers
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John, You fish the North end of Stump? I've never been down there, we usually fish the South end and a few bays around the houses on the East side. Where do you put a boat in, at that dirt launch alongside the road? I tied up a couple of your red frostbite with black rib chironomids, they look good. The one that worked great for me last year everywhere I tried it was the Brian Chan beadhead tied on a Tiemco 2457 size 12, gold bead, lime green super floss with white thread underneath to keep that brightness and heavy copper wire for the rib. I caught lots of fish in Dragon, Stump, Lac Des Roches, Courtenay, etc... and it became the first fly I pulled out at every new lake. Do you fish Courtenay much? We got some beauties there this fall using a shiner pattern we created.
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First of all, sorry Todd for getting off the subject. I bet you never got such a varied response for retrieving leeches. Steve, yes I really prefer the north end in the spring. The vegetation on that shoal is just sprouting up. This is mid-April(arms got sunburned April 15,1999) I'm talking about and the fish are suspended just above the weeds. It took me about an hour to get the right depth but once I did I've never lost so many leeches to fish in my life. I landed 4 fish between 3-6 pounds and I would say I lost 8-10 flies. Most of the locals use 8 lb. tippet(I had 6 lb.) because as soon as the fish know they're hooked they dive into that weedbed. I'm sure closer to opening day there'll be lots of chironimid postings so I'll wait until then to tell a story about lime green chironimids and one o'clock in the morning hatches. If you want a great chironimid pattern that I use for tea-stained lakes use your favourite hook, tie an underbody of black frostbite and an overbody of orange with copper ribbing. Awesome pattern to match those bombers at Tunkwa when the red and black doesn't produce. Take care, John
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Well Prof. I agree the original subject went elsewhere, but during the past couple days looking at these responses I had enough time to get a 2nd mortgage and purchase 3 $600 casting rods. The way I figured it if Scott could get some good practice in on a $400 rod just imagine what I could do with a $600 rod so what the heck getting 3 could maybe triple my casting ability! Hopefully these skills will carry over into my flycasting world. Also this spring I have decided to use a live makerel with a prop. from a '78 cessna rigged to it. It may sound illegal but I will use a barbless hook and it will be fished on a sink tip cortland line.
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John, I know what you mean about fish diving into the weeds! How do you tie your leeches, small or large and with what materials? I use plain old marabou tail, crystal chenille body with copper ribbing on size 10 4X long hooks. Sometimes I add the hackle for the wooly bugger style. Is the wind not too bad that early in the season? I would think that the North end would really get pounded when it blew up. I do fish Tunkwa every year and I've never had really good success there, always have to work hard for my fish. Your pattern sounds interesting but what are you using for the orange? And how do you tie your gills?
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Steve, My leeches are micro leeches and I don't know what the secret is. It took me two years to fine tune them to perfection and my only problem is they are tied on Tiemco 2312's, a curved shank dry fly hook which has been straightened out by some larger kamloopsies. I wouldn't change though as I need a finer hook to get a 3/32" gold bead on. This may also be the secret. I mix my own dubbing and tie them dubbing loop fashion with that basic short marabou tail. Instead of using krystal flash in the loop I just incorporate a minimal amount of enhancer into the dubbing. The dubbing base is angora, the rest is ancient Chinese secret but I'm sure we could arrange to get you a sample of the dubbing. The maroon pattern has caught fish from the Nikomekl River to Dragon Lake. Go figure! It is probably the skinniest leech pattern you'll see. As for Stump, yah you bet the wind howls in the spring. In fact that last posting I was talking about, I started at about 7 a.m. and just like clockwork the wind started breezing in at 11:30 and I know well enough to get off the lake but those damn fish wouldn't let me go! So I ended up having to beach the pontoon boat and walk a mile and a half back to the truck. On we go to Tunkwa. First of all that chironimid, you either use black frostbite under orange frostbite or black superfloss under orange superfloss. I prefer the transluscency of frostbite. For the gills I have started using a product called Neer Hair. It is supposed to be a polar bear hair substitute. It has just the right amount of flash in it and it goes a long way and is much cheaper than Z-Lon. At one time I used ostrich herl but I wasn't happy with it. but if you ever want to talk to a Leighton expert phone Neil and Georgi at Logan Lake Fly Shop. Their number is (250)523-9711. They're good people and they'll gladly bend your ear. Take care Prof.
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