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Hi, I will be heading up to 150 mile house in mid-May... fishing the lakes in and around Horsefly and Williams Lake. I haven't been up this early before and would greatly appreciate advise from my fellow angler's on their favorite chrionomid patterns for this time of the year. Thanks...
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Man, I can't believe it took this long for a chironimid posting. Redbutts above all others! For my personal patterns I tie with frostbite and epoxy over top. Commercial patterns instead of epoxy I just steal my wife's "Hard as Nails" and use that. It adds shine and makes the fly super durable. I'm tying this year with stretch tubing over top of flashabou. Super thin and indestructable. For bloodworms try tying v-rib on Tiemco 205BL larva hooks in 14-16. Black thread base with red frostbite over with red v-rib over that makes them deep maroon. Good luck, Prof.
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Gotta go with the lime green super floss bead head on a Tiemco 2457 size 12 or 14. Use white thread underneath to keep the brightness of the floss. I also use a medium weight copper wire for the ribbing rather than the fine stuff, it stands out more and the fish seem to like it. Otherwise, black frostbite body with red wire rib works too.
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Steve Did you try tying one of those Tunkwa chironimids in orange? Prof.
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I like to use a pattern like Steves black that he describes. I like to use the red copper wire for ribbing and also use a few turns down at the bottom of the fly at the hook bend and it makes a good red butt. Peacock thorax and white antron for at the head area. I also like tying them with a cyclops metal bead head either on short shank 2457 or l x long when the larger longer onces are coming up. Garth.
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John, I haven't gone out and bought any orange frostbite yet but I will be sure to try tying up a few of those before I head up your way soon (hopefully?). How close are we now to some ice off?
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John, you mention tying buzzers with "Frostbite" it is a material I have not heard of over here, is it a finer Fritz type material? I often use Super Stretch Floss, and rib with Pearl or Holographic tinsel then coat with epoxy. breather tubes and tails are optional, I have not noticed if there addition improves takes A pattern which has been successful for me early this season is the Shiphams buzzer. I tie it on a size 12 2x fine wire hook. It is just dubbed seals fur, well picked out with a flat bright tinsel,I use black, orange, or maroon dubbing. Mike
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Steve/Michael, Nicola iced off two weeks ago but still 12" on Stump(aaargh). I live 20 min. from Barnes and on Friday it had iced off around the edges. So it might be clear now with the mild sunny weather we're having. Dragon Lk. outside of Quesnel should be in another 1-1.5 weeks. Tunkwa should be around 3rd week in April and my personal favourite, Island, hopefully will ice off May 1st as I'm going there May 2nd. Michael, I know what frostbite looks like but describing it is something else. The closest I can get is this; it is 3 or 4 braided strips of plastic/tinsel with each being about half the diameter of flashabou and when using it, you cut a 1-1.5" piece,grab the two tag ends and pull it apart. It is shiny and super thin. Great stuff!! Now what I can't find here but need is those little foam balls for tying Booby's. I was very impressed with the effectiveness of that fly when crawled along the bottom. I know you have many good chironimid/buzzer patterns. There must be a huge factory over there that made way too much epoxy as 90% of the buzzer patterns I've seen utilize epoxy. Another British pattern that I really like is the Peterhog Sedge. How do your sedge hatches compare to ours? Or is BC the traveller sedge capital of the world? Take care, Prof. P.S. Post again or e-mail before you come and I can give you some hints on where to go and what is hatching.
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Michael, Some of my commercial patterns just don't sell strictly from looks. After returning from England I got some maroon seal and tied a thin bloodworm with that and flast silver tinsel. Simple yet effective. Prof.
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I've got a few questions for you guys.1)do you add wieght to non-beadhead chironamids? 2)Do caddis beads work good for chironamids bodies? 3) Is there certain colors/patterns that work better for different times of the year
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Ryan: I find a small metal cyclops bead is enough weight for the fly and adds to the effectiveness of the fly. If not I use the heavier hooks like the 2457 or a wet nymph hook, These are heavier hooks and the fly sinks well on its own. I don't add weight if I don't use a cyclops head. Use the fluro carbon leaders as they sink well. Expensive but well worth it. Colours: Black with different colors of ribbing seems to work well throughout the year. I find a tan color with a red butt works well in the spring. My experience is to have a variety of colors tied from black, browns, greens, olives, grey, and match the color the fishing are feeding on. A stomach pump carefully used is a good tool for this. Garth
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In reference to Garth's "stomach pump" comment, a certain Kamloops biologist(you know who he is) is working in conjunction with an unnamed flyfishing company to develop a new "throat pump" that will come complete with instructions and diagrams for proper use. Prof.
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Thanks prof. I guess throat pump is a better word for it, but I believe that what they sell at present is called a stomach pump, although not to be pushed down the throat that far. Just a little ways into the throat will get the bugs that the trout have recently eaten. Most will still be alive and so the colour pretty true. Garth.
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Prof, would it be any different then the "stomach pump"? I mean, a stomach pump is not really a stomach pump, if you put it that far down the fish your sure to injure it, and also all that you would pump out of it is guck.(digested insects). It is only suposed to go down the throat a little ways, into the gullet, where food is temperarily stored before going to the stomach to get ferther digested. And the one I got comes with instructions, making it very easy to learn how to use. Or is the "unamed author" (assuming he has the initials B.C)working on something that is designed a completley different way, that would prevent people from injuring the fish? I know its a great tool, I would hate to be out on the water without my stomach pump. To me its as important as my anchor :-)
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Didn't want to change the subject. Anyway the point is that the stomach pump if used properly is a good way to determine the color and just as important the approximate size of the chironomids being preyed upon. If there is an improvement to the stomach pump to prevent people from injuring the fish in anyway - fantastic. Garth
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John, Thanks for the info re Frostbite I think it is available over here but am not sure what we call it. Re sedge fishing, yes at times we do get prolific hatches, usually at dusk if the conditions are right, warm and overcaste.a few years back I was Boat fishing on Chew Reservior on a 5 day trip, we were about to call it a day when the hatch started, the amount of fish rising was unbelievable.But try as we may could not hook a single fish.The next day as dusk drew on we tackled up 3 rods each with a different dry pattern on each, after getting each rod in turn in a tangle, to dark to retackle, we gave up in disgust still with no fish hooked on the sedge. The following 2 evenings had cooled off so the evening rise did not materialise. I think the problem is under these conditions there is so much natural food on the surface that it is a lottery for a fish to take your fly. I have a wonderfull book on the subject entitled "Tying and Fishing The Sedge" Author Taff Price. ISBN 0-7137-2376-9 " 2510-9 Paperback. an expensive book but may be available in a public library. It covers paterns from Europe and N america. By the way,you have 1200 different varieties in N America we can only manage 200 in the UK. Mike
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Garth I didn't mean to contradict you on the term, "stomach pump". After all that is what I've always called them. I think the first mistake they made with that pump was having such a long insertion tube. I lucked out the first time I used mine as I was afraid of hurting the fish and I only inserted the tube a little at a time and on the third attempt out came about a dozen of those little red butts. Now in hindsight I can see that I probably hurt the fish anyway having it out of the water while I fumbled around with the pump. Now that I've used it a thousand times it is barely more than a 5 second operation. If I wanted to get technical I could call it an esophagus pump!! Mike, you're absolutely bang on as I would be lost without mine as well. I was being humbled severely on my favourite lake that I fish 30 times a year. I was frustrated and didn't have a clue what they were eating(fish were porpoising everywhere). I finally fluked a 14" trout and after pumping the esophagus out came about 2 doz. chaoborus midges. I was relieved because I thought it was me!!! I would assume that the pump would be a different design but when B.C. returned my e-mail he emphasized the explicit instructions and diagrams. Michael, first of all I think a British input can only add to the value of this board. Just out of curiousity do you use Tom Thumbs over there?? That, in my opinion, is the best sedge imitation going. Before I go further sorry to get off the chironimids but sedges are popping up everywhere and they do take precedent. I'll tie them with different thread colours and when pulling the deerhair forward I don't envelope the whole body with the deerhair. Last year I had great fun with Toms and Cortland "Camo" slimeline. I think you'll find if you vary your retrieve and how low your fly lies in the film your success rate will shoot way up. Jon Biggs, sorry for straying from your subject line. When you're heading up there stop in and see me in Cache Creek and I'll give you a couple special chironimids to try. Prof.
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Do any of you guys use tiemco 200R hooks for your chironamids? I was talking to one guy and he said he uses vinyl rib for chironamids, and sometimes frosbite underneath it, any good? And when you guys tie red butts, do you use a red rib or gold, silver, copper?
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A lot of tyers use 200R's but I'm just not impressed with the hook gape. I would just as soon use TMC2312's or 2487. For the poster who suggested 2457's. I prefer to go with the lighter hook as thin is the name of the game and the 2457's are 2X heavy. I am the guy who uses v-rib over frostbite for some patterns but now I really, really like stretch tubing. For my redbutts I see a lot of patterns with red rib but I get better results with gold or copper and I think the red butt and red rib is too much. Prof.
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Hi Prof, Thanks for the great advice...as well as everybody else. I certainly will stop by and say hi. BTW, where are you located in Cache Creek? Also, I was at Logan lake last year and stopped by the local fly shop. The owner was tying chironomids using varying colors of frostbite. He used a unique approach. He'd tie the fly and then dip it I belive in Acetone for about 10 seconds. It essentially made the fly bullet proof. Have you seen or heard of this approach before? To continue on my ramblings, I spent about an hour last weekend in the local craft shop and was overwhelmed with the amount of glass beads they had in stock. One bead in particular caught my attention. It is a clear glass bead with the color of silver in it. I've put it under water and I think it will serve as a good representation of air bubbles. Anyway, I'm going to experiment and see what happens. In response to Ryan's question concerning using 200Rs for chironomids. I've used them almost exclusively. I tie the rib well around the bend of the hook. I find that it most closely resembles the look of a mid on the surface. The light wire also serves well in keeping the fly in the film. I've had good success with tying in a couple of short strands of pearl flashabou at the tail. The only problem I've had is with bigger fish bending out the gape of the hook. You need to monitor this. I've lost several fish because of not re-bending the gape back to its original position.
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As an addendum to my last posting I do agree with Prof on the problems of the 200R and the gape of the hook. This year I'm going to experiment with other hooks that have been suggested on this site.
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Prof: What is stretch tube. Do you get it at the fly shops and is it available in different colors. Garth
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Jon, When you come down the hill into Cache Creek the first building you see on the right is The Goodknight Inn. That is me! I strongly advise against bending a hook back after it has been bent out of shape. It weakens the hook strength severely and one day you'll have the fish of a lifetime on and....SNAP. AS for imitating the shape of midges, buzzers, chironimids I would suggest the scud hooks. Prof.
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Prof: We're heading up on the 13th of May (Saturday). Should be in your neck of the woods by mid-afternoon. We'll stop by and hope to see you. If you're not around we'll stop by on our return and hopefully catch up. jon
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Jon, I'll either be here or at Island Lake! Besides fishing I'm a prisoner here but that's a fair trade for fishing twice a week. Garth, stretch tubing is like vinyl tubing, larva lace, liqui-lace BUT it is smaller diameter and you can stretch it super thin. The exception to the rule is the black colour which has almost no stretch. Why, I do not know. You could get by with clear and using different colours of frostbite underneath. Let me warn you though, I've been waiting 5 weeks for an order and counting. I especially like the brown with copper flashabou underneath. The combinations are endless and suprisingly enough it comes in lime green. Prof.
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Prof, I understand...seems to me like a better than fair trade-off. I'll see you if I see you. If not, have a great day on the lake. jon
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Gotta love lime green!! John, I thought the only thing worthy of note in Cache Creek was Hungry Herbies, now that I know where you are I'll be sure to stop in. Gotta stop for a Herbie burger, fries and a pineapple milkshake every time we drive through, MMmmm I can taste that wonderful artery-clogging grease now.....
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If you have whitefish up that way, there are many delicious yet healthy recipes on the Whitefish Discussion Thread. Including Fishcarver's "Whitefish Surprise" (that's when you throw a toothbrush handle at the poor beast, and it leaps onto the rocks in a flat panic).
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John, no, the"Tom Thumb" is not a pattern I have come across in the U.K. but there are a number of Dry Sedge patterns tied with deer hair used here In particular one called the G&H sedge which is a well clipped type. The G part of the G&H is John Goddard one of our most well respected Entomologist/Fishermen, he has written many books on the subject. We have over here a countrywide organisation known as "The Flydressers Guild" which has branches in many areas.I belong to the Hertfordshire branch which conveniently meets very close to my home and meets once a month for talks by guest speakers such the above, and Taff Price who I mentioned yesterday. we also have DIY evenings, one of which is a Fur & Feather evening. One of our shooting members brings in a tableful of game from which we select whatever nec. to tie flies in different catorgaries for a competition We also arrange a couple of fishing trips each year. Sadly trout fishing seems to be in decline over here and our guild has fallen in numbers from 70 + when I joined 20years back to about 26 today,old members are dying off and are not being replaced by youngsters. Jon we have a floss over here which is soluble in Acetone I suspect it is what was called Artificial Silk (Rayon)I have seen it demonstated to put individual bands on the extended body of a Damsel Fly each band being secured by cutting the floss with an Acetone dipped needle and finaly when all 7, I think, bands were in place, the whole was given a quick dunk to secure and gloss up, if you get what I mean ??? Any way the result was the most realistic Adult damsel I have seen Mike
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Jon, After rereading your post in reference to being in at Logan Lake Fly Shop last year and the owner was dipping chironimids in acetone, that is when you are using acetate floss for tying. It is a special type of floss, when dipped in acetone melts and becomes rock hard. The first year it was out I used it but found it to be nothing special, just another way to increase durability. Gloss coat, flexament, epoxy or Hard as Nails would do just as well. Neil/Georgi from Logan Lake will bend your ear if you need any advice for lakes in the Logan Lake area. They know Leighton intimately. Steve O, if you come through without eating at Bill Ma's you're missing a good meal!! Take care, Prof.
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Prof. how small do you go on your tippet for chrionomid fish'en.? I just can't seem to have much luck. Do you get them right to the bottom then start your retreive? If you started a post with different techniques would sure be helpfull.
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Prof is right, if ya don't stop in at Bill Ma's, your are missing out on a great meal!!!
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Where's Bill Ma's? I'll still go over to Herbie's for the pineapple shake, the chunks are so big you can't get 'em up the straw.
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Steve The first building on the left when you come down the hill is Bill Ma's. I believe if you take the chopsticks and drill a hole through leaving just a thin wall those pineapples will go up no problem!! Fishcarver, way back when I used mono tippets I wouldn't use any more than 3 lb. but now I use fluorocarbon and because of virtually no light refraction I don't use any less than 5 lb. It helps to keep the fight short as well. That's a good idea about chironimid techniques and I'll start one tomorrow unless someone wants to start one earlier. Prof.
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Prof. thanks. I have tried but after 30 casts and not even a sniff. I go back to my good old green carrys. This spring I would like to put a little more effert into it though. I do well with shrimps and a slow retreive.
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Prof & Mike: Thanks for the info on the acetone...I think I'll stay away from it. Don't want my apartment to be as flammable as a meth lab. jon
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Prof what is the most common chrionomid and what are the best imitations? I see alot of those cone heads with wire wrap. They seem to be the most common pattern.
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Hey Guys, I will be travelling through the Kamloops/Merritt area right after I finish my last exam here at the University of Victoria (first couple days in May), and I wanted to get at least one day of fishing in, before I have to drive back home to Calgary. I've been to the area before, but I usually can only stay the night, then continue on my way in the morning. I'm not looking for any 'secrets', but I would like to get some suggestions for places I might try. Great informative posts, and tight lines!
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Mark, I would think that Stump should be in top shape by then. Fish either the north or south end in the morning and then about 11:00 when the breeze starts get off the lake!! Spend the afternoon up around Roche, lets say Hosli. Hop it helps and good luck with the fishing club. Prof.
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